MASONTAKE DIY Intake
#21
09-30-2006, 07:57 AM
RE: MASONTAKE DIY Intake
RESULTS!!!
Alright I will sum it up in list for you impatient people, then explain the results and my thoughts on them afterwards.
1. I increased airflow through the MAF an average of: 8% increase over stock and 3% increase over the Darintake.
2. I decreased the temperature of the air at the THROTTLE BODY by an average of: 34 degrees F less than stock and 30 degrees F less than the Darintake.
3. I separated the COLD air for the intake and the HOT air from the engine as much as possible, creating a difference of 62 degrees from the engine to the filter element. (this means the filter element was 72 degrees F and the engine was 140 degrees F, so the engine was getting air that was 62 degrees F cooler than if it was sucking in hot engine air.)
4. I spent a total of about 70 dollars not including my labor, but aftermarket intakes take time to install as well, so I cancelled out the install time.
5. I enjoyed doing something that benefits my car's performance, my knowledge and understanding of how my car works and the concepts involved.
6. I created something that no one else has ever created (kind of, the principals are the same, but I have yet to see a welded aluminum insulated intake compartment, at least not on a B5 S4.)
7. We all gained valuable knowledge concerning the intake of the B5 S4.
Okay so here comes the technical part and my ideas on why everything turned out the way it did.
Before we go down the list let's examine my thinking regarding the intake.
Yesterday I fabricated a new larger air box from cardboard with the thought that the bigger I can make it the more air that it will flow. After looking at how tight it fit and seeing the complete lack of airflow(besides the stock snorkel) I decided to stop and think and examine if it was the best idea for this application. Three problems kept bugging me all different variables of the intake.
1. The B5 S4 just has too much in the engine compartment. (10lbs of potatoes in a 5lb sack)
2. The stock snorkel was deemed adequate by the Audi engineers (though to me it seems tiny)
3. There is ZERO attempt to heat shield the air box/intake system from engine heat.
After think about these three things I came to the conclusion that I could only really change one variable. Since I cannot remove anything from the engine bay (the passenger headlight springs to mind first) and there is no feasible way to really gain any substantial amount of airflow to the MAF (cold air is almost impossible to introduce besides the stock snorkel or putting in a hood scoop) I realized that my best plan of attack was to combat the heat since it was the only variable I could change and since the issue had not been addressed by Audi at all which is kind of strange (the air box and filter sit less than an inch from uncovered headers on the passenger side of the engine.)
So last night I re-strategize and I decided I would not make a new air box but more of a dam to separate hot air on the engine side from cold air on the intake side. I constructed the dam from .125" aluminum plate, with a layer of foam/aluminum pipe wrap insulation on each side. I then riveted on a piece of .020" aluminum sheet over the insulation to make sure it didn't come off when the temperatures rose. The dam is essentially three piece of this triple thick insulated aluminum. The aluminum dam runs from the frame rail that is under the stock air box all the way to the hood where a gasket made of rubber garage door gasket seals to the bottom of the hood like the stock gasket that seals the perimeter of the hood. That is the basic design, very simple, one goal in mind separate hot engine air from cold intake air.
Alright lets discuss results.
1. I increased airflow through the MAF an average of: 8% increase over stock and 3% increase over the Darintake.
The first graph shows the average air flow (grams/second) of three runs for the stock air box (red) two runs done with the Darintake (green) and 4 runs with the Masontake (blue).
The highest readings were:
Stock Air box: 185 grams/sec
Darintake: 187 grams/sec
Masontake: 192 grams/sec
The first graph shows the average of the three highest recordings for each run which shows that the Darintake flows consistently more than stock and the Masontake flow consistently more than stock and the Darintake. It should be noted that the small scoop I placed in front of the snorkel entrance has not been proven to increase air flow, I have not had time to test the Masontake without the small scoop(called the grill scoop) so I cannot claim that it adds to the increased airflow, more testing to come in the future.
2. I decreased the temperature of the air at the THROTTLE BODY by an average of: 34 degrees F less than stock and 30 degrees F less than the Darintake.
(all runs were done under the same conditions, same road, same ambient air temperature, same relative humidity)
The Second graph shows the average air intake temperatures.
The Vag Com reads the air temperature at the junction of the Bi-Pipe just before it enters the Throttle Body, introducing the coldest air possible to the intake will lower air temperatures throughout the entire intake system (filter element all the way to combustion chamber) Since I have no reliable way to measure the temperature of the air as it enters the filter we must rely on the Vag Com to tell us the air temp at the throttle body. A 34 degree F drop in temp at the throttle body means a substantial drop in temp at the filter. I have an idea to measure the air in the air box and will post more later. I knew the insulation and separation of hot engine air and cold intake air would have a positive effect but I had no idea it would cause this much of a change.
3. I separated the COLD air for the intake and the HOT air from the engine as much as possible, creating a difference of 62 degrees from the engine to the filter element. (this means the filter element was 72 degrees F and the engine was 140 degrees F, so the engine was getting air that was 62 degrees F cooler than if it was sucking in hot engine air.)
I used my Infrared Thermometer several times to measure the temperature differences on different parts of the intake and engine. I found that the air dam that I created was very effective. I think the thickness of the insulation is the key, also the bare aluminum on the engine side helps reflect as much heat as possible. Overall I am very pleased with the thermal insulating efficiency of my design. The stock air box used to be hot to the touch, my cone filter and the intake side of the air dam is cold to the touch.
4. I spent a total of about 70 dollars not including my labor, but aftermarket intakes take time to install as well, so I cancelled out the install time.
Granted I did have all the necessary tools and a lot of the materials but I priced the aluminum as it could be purchased at any Lowes or Home Depot. No matter how you look at it, this is much much cheaper than an aftermarket intake. And yes it looks way more ghetto too, but if I spent 400 dollars I am sure I could make it pretty.
Things to come....
Heat shield for MAF (this to me is the next must do as the MAF was almost 100 degrees F more than the intake and filter element. it needs to be shielded from the heat of the engine because it sits above the passenger side turbo and exhaust.)
Better filter?
Thermometer for inside air box area?
Insulate the Y pipe and Bi-Pipe?
Vag Com without Grill Scoop and or redesign grill scoop
Vag Com without passenger headlight
Like always any questions, comments, complaints, rants, flames, whatever is appreciated.
Mason
HAHAHHAAH I forgot to link to the pictures: MASONTAKE PICTURES
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/ED497C3ED2434601B37595210F23B0C7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/412DF813CB26414B8ECFC7B37566329F.jpg[/IMG]
Alright I will sum it up in list for you impatient people, then explain the results and my thoughts on them afterwards.
1. I increased airflow through the MAF an average of: 8% increase over stock and 3% increase over the Darintake.
2. I decreased the temperature of the air at the THROTTLE BODY by an average of: 34 degrees F less than stock and 30 degrees F less than the Darintake.
3. I separated the COLD air for the intake and the HOT air from the engine as much as possible, creating a difference of 62 degrees from the engine to the filter element. (this means the filter element was 72 degrees F and the engine was 140 degrees F, so the engine was getting air that was 62 degrees F cooler than if it was sucking in hot engine air.)
4. I spent a total of about 70 dollars not including my labor, but aftermarket intakes take time to install as well, so I cancelled out the install time.
5. I enjoyed doing something that benefits my car's performance, my knowledge and understanding of how my car works and the concepts involved.
6. I created something that no one else has ever created (kind of, the principals are the same, but I have yet to see a welded aluminum insulated intake compartment, at least not on a B5 S4.)
7. We all gained valuable knowledge concerning the intake of the B5 S4.
Okay so here comes the technical part and my ideas on why everything turned out the way it did.
Before we go down the list let's examine my thinking regarding the intake.
Yesterday I fabricated a new larger air box from cardboard with the thought that the bigger I can make it the more air that it will flow. After looking at how tight it fit and seeing the complete lack of airflow(besides the stock snorkel) I decided to stop and think and examine if it was the best idea for this application. Three problems kept bugging me all different variables of the intake.
1. The B5 S4 just has too much in the engine compartment. (10lbs of potatoes in a 5lb sack)
2. The stock snorkel was deemed adequate by the Audi engineers (though to me it seems tiny)
3. There is ZERO attempt to heat shield the air box/intake system from engine heat.
After think about these three things I came to the conclusion that I could only really change one variable. Since I cannot remove anything from the engine bay (the passenger headlight springs to mind first) and there is no feasible way to really gain any substantial amount of airflow to the MAF (cold air is almost impossible to introduce besides the stock snorkel or putting in a hood scoop) I realized that my best plan of attack was to combat the heat since it was the only variable I could change and since the issue had not been addressed by Audi at all which is kind of strange (the air box and filter sit less than an inch from uncovered headers on the passenger side of the engine.)
So last night I re-strategize and I decided I would not make a new air box but more of a dam to separate hot air on the engine side from cold air on the intake side. I constructed the dam from .125" aluminum plate, with a layer of foam/aluminum pipe wrap insulation on each side. I then riveted on a piece of .020" aluminum sheet over the insulation to make sure it didn't come off when the temperatures rose. The dam is essentially three piece of this triple thick insulated aluminum. The aluminum dam runs from the frame rail that is under the stock air box all the way to the hood where a gasket made of rubber garage door gasket seals to the bottom of the hood like the stock gasket that seals the perimeter of the hood. That is the basic design, very simple, one goal in mind separate hot engine air from cold intake air.
Alright lets discuss results.
1. I increased airflow through the MAF an average of: 8% increase over stock and 3% increase over the Darintake.
The first graph shows the average air flow (grams/second) of three runs for the stock air box (red) two runs done with the Darintake (green) and 4 runs with the Masontake (blue).
The highest readings were:
Stock Air box: 185 grams/sec
Darintake: 187 grams/sec
Masontake: 192 grams/sec
The first graph shows the average of the three highest recordings for each run which shows that the Darintake flows consistently more than stock and the Masontake flow consistently more than stock and the Darintake. It should be noted that the small scoop I placed in front of the snorkel entrance has not been proven to increase air flow, I have not had time to test the Masontake without the small scoop(called the grill scoop) so I cannot claim that it adds to the increased airflow, more testing to come in the future.
2. I decreased the temperature of the air at the THROTTLE BODY by an average of: 34 degrees F less than stock and 30 degrees F less than the Darintake.
(all runs were done under the same conditions, same road, same ambient air temperature, same relative humidity)
The Second graph shows the average air intake temperatures.
The Vag Com reads the air temperature at the junction of the Bi-Pipe just before it enters the Throttle Body, introducing the coldest air possible to the intake will lower air temperatures throughout the entire intake system (filter element all the way to combustion chamber) Since I have no reliable way to measure the temperature of the air as it enters the filter we must rely on the Vag Com to tell us the air temp at the throttle body. A 34 degree F drop in temp at the throttle body means a substantial drop in temp at the filter. I have an idea to measure the air in the air box and will post more later. I knew the insulation and separation of hot engine air and cold intake air would have a positive effect but I had no idea it would cause this much of a change.
3. I separated the COLD air for the intake and the HOT air from the engine as much as possible, creating a difference of 62 degrees from the engine to the filter element. (this means the filter element was 72 degrees F and the engine was 140 degrees F, so the engine was getting air that was 62 degrees F cooler than if it was sucking in hot engine air.)
I used my Infrared Thermometer several times to measure the temperature differences on different parts of the intake and engine. I found that the air dam that I created was very effective. I think the thickness of the insulation is the key, also the bare aluminum on the engine side helps reflect as much heat as possible. Overall I am very pleased with the thermal insulating efficiency of my design. The stock air box used to be hot to the touch, my cone filter and the intake side of the air dam is cold to the touch.
4. I spent a total of about 70 dollars not including my labor, but aftermarket intakes take time to install as well, so I cancelled out the install time.
Granted I did have all the necessary tools and a lot of the materials but I priced the aluminum as it could be purchased at any Lowes or Home Depot. No matter how you look at it, this is much much cheaper than an aftermarket intake. And yes it looks way more ghetto too, but if I spent 400 dollars I am sure I could make it pretty.
Things to come....
Heat shield for MAF (this to me is the next must do as the MAF was almost 100 degrees F more than the intake and filter element. it needs to be shielded from the heat of the engine because it sits above the passenger side turbo and exhaust.)
Better filter?
Thermometer for inside air box area?
Insulate the Y pipe and Bi-Pipe?
Vag Com without Grill Scoop and or redesign grill scoop
Vag Com without passenger headlight
Like always any questions, comments, complaints, rants, flames, whatever is appreciated.
Mason
HAHAHHAAH I forgot to link to the pictures: MASONTAKE PICTURES
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/ED497C3ED2434601B37595210F23B0C7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/412DF813CB26414B8ECFC7B37566329F.jpg[/IMG]
#22
09-30-2006, 08:03 AM
RE: MASONTAKE DIY Intake
I felt that these three were important enough to be posted here
these were taken with my IR thermometer after several different runs, all readings were within a few degrees from one run to the next (ambient air temp was 72 degrees F)
this is why my next mod will be insulating the MAF and the black plastic accordian section directly after the MAF ( they both read from 170-180 degrees F)
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/46BFE640C41447B9BBFA91110CC52132.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/58D82E02B77743F789E4EFA02946E289.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/62457F335DC94E0B8123C06B7FECBB84.jpg[/IMG]
these were taken with my IR thermometer after several different runs, all readings were within a few degrees from one run to the next (ambient air temp was 72 degrees F)
this is why my next mod will be insulating the MAF and the black plastic accordian section directly after the MAF ( they both read from 170-180 degrees F)
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/46BFE640C41447B9BBFA91110CC52132.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/58D82E02B77743F789E4EFA02946E289.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8989/62457F335DC94E0B8123C06B7FECBB84.jpg[/IMG]
#23
10-02-2006, 04:06 AM
RE: MASONTAKE DIY Intake
correct i would agree that there was NOT a 24 hp increase. I am curious to know how dropping the temperature effects the air density and how in turn that effects hp.
#24
10-02-2006, 03:46 PM
RE: MASONTAKE DIY Intake
Take some better pics! There way to dark to see what's going on, all I see is a big cone filter[:@]
Very well done, it seams like it's working for you. Lowering intake temps is just like getting more cfm.
The cooler the air, the more dense, the more HP it makes per volume.
So at 200g/s @ 100deg will be more dense & have more volume giving more HP per g/s over
225g/s @ 200deg.
It's also eaiser on the turbo's, they will spool faster & work less creating less thermal transfer
to the intake charge air. This will also add HP, and make the IC work more efficiently.
On a turbo car, cooler air helps every where!
Now what you have to do is some FATS runs, or head to a Dyno to see if there is fact a HP increase.
Believe it or not, more airflow, doesn't always mean more HP @ the wheels.
Well done!
Very well done, it seams like it's working for you. Lowering intake temps is just like getting more cfm.
The cooler the air, the more dense, the more HP it makes per volume.
So at 200g/s @ 100deg will be more dense & have more volume giving more HP per g/s over
225g/s @ 200deg.
It's also eaiser on the turbo's, they will spool faster & work less creating less thermal transfer
to the intake charge air. This will also add HP, and make the IC work more efficiently.
On a turbo car, cooler air helps every where!
Now what you have to do is some FATS runs, or head to a Dyno to see if there is fact a HP increase.
Believe it or not, more airflow, doesn't always mean more HP @ the wheels.
Well done!
#25
10-02-2006, 04:04 PM
RE: MASONTAKE DIY Intake
I know the pics were taken at dusk, so I will have to get some better ones soon, and yes I agree that more airflow doesn't me more hp, I think the cone filter I have in there now is turbulent, and am planning to try something else maybe an S-flo.
I am going to be doing some runs coming up, I think I may just devote a whole day to compairing the stock airbox with the Darintake mod to what I have set up now and then maybe trying several different filters. I do want to do it down the hill though as I am at 7000 feet and would be curious to see if there is any difference at elevations closeer to sea level.
I will also be insulating the throttle body and correcgated hose that follows it in the near future as well.
Mason
I am going to be doing some runs coming up, I think I may just devote a whole day to compairing the stock airbox with the Darintake mod to what I have set up now and then maybe trying several different filters. I do want to do it down the hill though as I am at 7000 feet and would be curious to see if there is any difference at elevations closeer to sea level.
I will also be insulating the throttle body and correcgated hose that follows it in the near future as well.
Mason
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Sp33d07
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