gt28rs or k04???
#11
02-24-2009, 11:16 PM
okay.. so.. what is the maximum wheel horse power that ill be able to run with any kit.. .. this is the thing.. i love bolt on horsepower.. and i realize that with some of it other things have to be strengthened.. my dad has a 69 montego with a 428 cobra jet.. and it took only a few 60 to 100 mph gallops before the trans gave.. so that is what im looking for.. what is the maximum compression ratio that i can go (given the psi of boost from the turbos) before i will need a stronger head gasket or stronger connecting rods??? and again im not looking for just bolt on magic.. if i had the money to instantly go the gt28rs way id take my time and blow all the cash and rebuild the block and heads and all.. i mean.. come on .. im sure youve seen the video of the gt28rs versus the k04.. that was freakin ridiculas..but i dont want the car to be down more than 2 weeks.. so without having to do a major overhaul on the engine.. what is the best turbo kit for the money and what is the best power increase i will see with a proper tune/fueling kit without doing engine work..
thanks.. so far the responses have been awesome..
those youtube videos are making me think i can bolt on **** and fly with the gods..
thanks.. so far the responses have been awesome..
those youtube videos are making me think i can bolt on **** and fly with the gods..
#12
02-25-2009, 07:32 AM
If you get anything bigger than k04 (or hybrids) i would be really hesitant to run full boost on a stock motor. The wall is somewhere around 500whp. You can run bigger kits, but you would not be running full boost, meth, race gas, and thus you wouldnt be making much more power than a k04 car, just getting more lag.
RS6's and Tials would probably be pretty safe on a motor with just new connecting rods. Im not sure about the tials, they havent been pushed to their limits yet IMO. Some people do run rs6's on a stock motor but iv hears that they arent much quicker than k04's or hybrids and they take a little longer to spool.
The big GT28 turbo kits are most effective when you build the bottom end, increase the displacement to help with spool, and build heads capable of reving to 8500 RPM or so. This way you CAN run full boost and you will have a better powerband, the bigger the turbo is goint to move your powerband up in the rev range. If you cant rev high enough to really take advantage of it why bother? Theres a few different GT's that people have been using so power really ranges. Theres really nothing from stopping you from putting them on a stock motor though, the problem is that if you try to juice em out so to speak your likely to break something.
A k04 car is still fast, a few years ago all this other stuff was unheard of.
Really though...
K04/hybrids, 034 inlets, hardware
3" downpipes (ASP or 034), electric exhaust cutouts (even though you dont like em, it can be like 20 HP), and any catback you want (i want twin1 to replace my borla 3")
ER sidemounts (or a frontmount if you wanna save like $900)
GenX aluminum bipipe with w/m bungs welded in, and a Water/Meth kit obv too, 2 gal tank in the trunk
Vast stage 3 clutch and LWFW, JHM transmission rebuild, short shifter, and linkage upgrade. 4:1 bias center diff mod
034 track density Motor, transmission, and snub mounts w/ cage. JHM DTS poly mount (and a dts if you dont have one), Stern rear diff mount
Custom fueling and tune from VAST or EPL with 60lb injectors, bigger MAF, fuel pump....
Maintance and because its a good idea: Febi-Bilstin controll arm kit, EGT's, O2's, N75, head gaskets, Valve cover gaskets, cam seals, timing belt & waterpump (even though mines only 10,000 miles old, **** it) front and rear main seals, all vacume lines, oil lines, maybe more. Nothing would suck more to get 400whp followed by an oil leak or something gay like that. Make sure the crankcase ventilation works, and replace the near 10 year old seals and gaskets IMO its worth it to do the job right.
Thats pretty much what iv picked out for myself, the end result should be a solid package with over 400WHP and WTQ. You could use RS6's instead of K04's or hybrids if you want and youd get even more power, but you might run the risk of breaking something especially with the w/m.
K04's stay within the limits of your stock motor, anything outside of that you might as well go big or go home IMO. I think these numbers are fairly accurate. Its hard to say though, an OTS k04 kit is only gonna make like 360whp, but custom tuned with dumps and water meth you could be making 450hp....
K04 ~ 400hp
RS6 ~ 450hp
Tial ~ 500HP
GT25 ~ 500HP
GT2860 ~600hp
GT28RS ~ 600+hp
RS6's and Tials would probably be pretty safe on a motor with just new connecting rods. Im not sure about the tials, they havent been pushed to their limits yet IMO. Some people do run rs6's on a stock motor but iv hears that they arent much quicker than k04's or hybrids and they take a little longer to spool.
The big GT28 turbo kits are most effective when you build the bottom end, increase the displacement to help with spool, and build heads capable of reving to 8500 RPM or so. This way you CAN run full boost and you will have a better powerband, the bigger the turbo is goint to move your powerband up in the rev range. If you cant rev high enough to really take advantage of it why bother? Theres a few different GT's that people have been using so power really ranges. Theres really nothing from stopping you from putting them on a stock motor though, the problem is that if you try to juice em out so to speak your likely to break something.
A k04 car is still fast, a few years ago all this other stuff was unheard of.
Really though...
K04/hybrids, 034 inlets, hardware
3" downpipes (ASP or 034), electric exhaust cutouts (even though you dont like em, it can be like 20 HP), and any catback you want (i want twin1 to replace my borla 3")
ER sidemounts (or a frontmount if you wanna save like $900)
GenX aluminum bipipe with w/m bungs welded in, and a Water/Meth kit obv too, 2 gal tank in the trunk
Vast stage 3 clutch and LWFW, JHM transmission rebuild, short shifter, and linkage upgrade. 4:1 bias center diff mod
034 track density Motor, transmission, and snub mounts w/ cage. JHM DTS poly mount (and a dts if you dont have one), Stern rear diff mount
Custom fueling and tune from VAST or EPL with 60lb injectors, bigger MAF, fuel pump....
Maintance and because its a good idea: Febi-Bilstin controll arm kit, EGT's, O2's, N75, head gaskets, Valve cover gaskets, cam seals, timing belt & waterpump (even though mines only 10,000 miles old, **** it) front and rear main seals, all vacume lines, oil lines, maybe more. Nothing would suck more to get 400whp followed by an oil leak or something gay like that. Make sure the crankcase ventilation works, and replace the near 10 year old seals and gaskets IMO its worth it to do the job right.
Thats pretty much what iv picked out for myself, the end result should be a solid package with over 400WHP and WTQ. You could use RS6's instead of K04's or hybrids if you want and youd get even more power, but you might run the risk of breaking something especially with the w/m.
K04's stay within the limits of your stock motor, anything outside of that you might as well go big or go home IMO. I think these numbers are fairly accurate. Its hard to say though, an OTS k04 kit is only gonna make like 360whp, but custom tuned with dumps and water meth you could be making 450hp....
K04 ~ 400hp
RS6 ~ 450hp
Tial ~ 500HP
GT25 ~ 500HP
GT2860 ~600hp
GT28RS ~ 600+hp
#13
02-25-2009, 12:17 PM
This is pretty accurately, and succinctly put.
I do question though the statement of "RS6s arent that much faster than K04s". While I don't have any numbers or science to throw behind my claim, I do know that a well-put-together/tuned RS6 car pulls very hard all the way up to redline. K04s are still smaller turbos. Robust, yes. But they run out of steam at the top.
now, that's NOT to say that a K04 car isn't fast, because, hell yes it is. Not trying to get flamed up here, but I'm saying that there's a pretty big difference.
The price you pay with RS6s though, is lag, and waiting 500 or so more RPMs for the full boost really to kick in.
#14
02-25-2009, 12:57 PM
No your absolutly correct about that, the rs6's have a larger housing so they DO flow more and pull harder all the way to redline. A well built RS6 car is definitly faster than a k04 car, but to push the RS6 car to the limit like you can do with k04's I would want new connecting rods, so the price is a little bit more, maybe $2000-$3000 more than a k04 car id think.
I remember someone at EPL had K04/RS6 hybrids then switched to full RS6's and the difference wasnt that big. Thats all i meant, a well built hybrid k04 car with good supporting mods being run to the limit is pretty close to a car with RS6's on a stock motor
I remember someone at EPL had K04/RS6 hybrids then switched to full RS6's and the difference wasnt that big. Thats all i meant, a well built hybrid k04 car with good supporting mods being run to the limit is pretty close to a car with RS6's on a stock motor
Last edited by SourDieselS4; 02-25-2009 at 01:01 PM.
#15
02-25-2009, 01:49 PM
Exactly...
But IMO, why would you go with RS6s and NOT build up the engine? I mean, you're really going to be pushing a fair bit of power, you should take care of the foreseeable issue up front, instead of waiting for something to fatally fail.
And you're right, the RS6s 'build' (rods, etc), is running about 2-3k more, due to the fact that you need to do the rods, but also the clutch.
(off topic)SourDieselS4, are you in NH? If so, we should do a drive/meet up sometime, maybe some runs for fun. I think our cars are about at the same stage. (I'm stage 2).(/offtopic)
But IMO, why would you go with RS6s and NOT build up the engine? I mean, you're really going to be pushing a fair bit of power, you should take care of the foreseeable issue up front, instead of waiting for something to fatally fail.
And you're right, the RS6s 'build' (rods, etc), is running about 2-3k more, due to the fact that you need to do the rods, but also the clutch.
(off topic)SourDieselS4, are you in NH? If so, we should do a drive/meet up sometime, maybe some runs for fun. I think our cars are about at the same stage. (I'm stage 2).(/offtopic)
#16
02-25-2009, 02:13 PM
If you get anything bigger than k04 (or hybrids) i would be really hesitant to run full boost on a stock motor. The wall is somewhere around 500whp. You can run bigger kits, but you would not be running full boost, meth, race gas, and thus you wouldnt be making much more power than a k04 car, just getting more lag.
RS6's and Tials would probably be pretty safe on a motor with just new connecting rods. Im not sure about the tials, they havent been pushed to their limits yet IMO. Some people do run rs6's on a stock motor but iv hears that they arent much quicker than k04's or hybrids and they take a little longer to spool.
The big GT28 turbo kits are most effective when you build the bottom end, increase the displacement to help with spool, and build heads capable of reving to 8500 RPM or so. This way you CAN run full boost and you will have a better powerband, the bigger the turbo is goint to move your powerband up in the rev range. If you cant rev high enough to really take advantage of it why bother? Theres a few different GT's that people have been using so power really ranges. Theres really nothing from stopping you from putting them on a stock motor though, the problem is that if you try to juice em out so to speak your likely to break something.
A k04 car is still fast, a few years ago all this other stuff was unheard of.
Really though...
K04/hybrids, 034 inlets, hardware
3" downpipes (ASP or 034), electric exhaust cutouts (even though you dont like em, it can be like 20 HP), and any catback you want (i want twin1 to replace my borla 3")
ER sidemounts (or a frontmount if you wanna save like $900)
GenX aluminum bipipe with w/m bungs welded in, and a Water/Meth kit obv too, 2 gal tank in the trunk
Vast stage 3 clutch and LWFW, JHM transmission rebuild, short shifter, and linkage upgrade. 4:1 bias center diff mod
034 track density Motor, transmission, and snub mounts w/ cage. JHM DTS poly mount (and a dts if you dont have one), Stern rear diff mount
Custom fueling and tune from VAST or EPL with 60lb injectors, bigger MAF, fuel pump....
Maintance and because its a good idea: Febi-Bilstin controll arm kit, EGT's, O2's, N75, head gaskets, Valve cover gaskets, cam seals, timing belt & waterpump (even though mines only 10,000 miles old, **** it) front and rear main seals, all vacume lines, oil lines, maybe more. Nothing would suck more to get 400whp followed by an oil leak or something gay like that. Make sure the crankcase ventilation works, and replace the near 10 year old seals and gaskets IMO its worth it to do the job right.
Thats pretty much what iv picked out for myself, the end result should be a solid package with over 400WHP and WTQ. You could use RS6's instead of K04's or hybrids if you want and youd get even more power, but you might run the risk of breaking something especially with the w/m.
K04's stay within the limits of your stock motor, anything outside of that you might as well go big or go home IMO. I think these numbers are fairly accurate. Its hard to say though, an OTS k04 kit is only gonna make like 360whp, but custom tuned with dumps and water meth you could be making 450hp....
K04 ~ 400hp
RS6 ~ 450hp
Tial ~ 500HP
GT25 ~ 500HP
GT2860 ~600hp
GT28RS ~ 600+hp
RS6's and Tials would probably be pretty safe on a motor with just new connecting rods. Im not sure about the tials, they havent been pushed to their limits yet IMO. Some people do run rs6's on a stock motor but iv hears that they arent much quicker than k04's or hybrids and they take a little longer to spool.
The big GT28 turbo kits are most effective when you build the bottom end, increase the displacement to help with spool, and build heads capable of reving to 8500 RPM or so. This way you CAN run full boost and you will have a better powerband, the bigger the turbo is goint to move your powerband up in the rev range. If you cant rev high enough to really take advantage of it why bother? Theres a few different GT's that people have been using so power really ranges. Theres really nothing from stopping you from putting them on a stock motor though, the problem is that if you try to juice em out so to speak your likely to break something.
A k04 car is still fast, a few years ago all this other stuff was unheard of.
Really though...
K04/hybrids, 034 inlets, hardware
3" downpipes (ASP or 034), electric exhaust cutouts (even though you dont like em, it can be like 20 HP), and any catback you want (i want twin1 to replace my borla 3")
ER sidemounts (or a frontmount if you wanna save like $900)
GenX aluminum bipipe with w/m bungs welded in, and a Water/Meth kit obv too, 2 gal tank in the trunk
Vast stage 3 clutch and LWFW, JHM transmission rebuild, short shifter, and linkage upgrade. 4:1 bias center diff mod
034 track density Motor, transmission, and snub mounts w/ cage. JHM DTS poly mount (and a dts if you dont have one), Stern rear diff mount
Custom fueling and tune from VAST or EPL with 60lb injectors, bigger MAF, fuel pump....
Maintance and because its a good idea: Febi-Bilstin controll arm kit, EGT's, O2's, N75, head gaskets, Valve cover gaskets, cam seals, timing belt & waterpump (even though mines only 10,000 miles old, **** it) front and rear main seals, all vacume lines, oil lines, maybe more. Nothing would suck more to get 400whp followed by an oil leak or something gay like that. Make sure the crankcase ventilation works, and replace the near 10 year old seals and gaskets IMO its worth it to do the job right.
Thats pretty much what iv picked out for myself, the end result should be a solid package with over 400WHP and WTQ. You could use RS6's instead of K04's or hybrids if you want and youd get even more power, but you might run the risk of breaking something especially with the w/m.
K04's stay within the limits of your stock motor, anything outside of that you might as well go big or go home IMO. I think these numbers are fairly accurate. Its hard to say though, an OTS k04 kit is only gonna make like 360whp, but custom tuned with dumps and water meth you could be making 450hp....
K04 ~ 400hp
RS6 ~ 450hp
Tial ~ 500HP
GT25 ~ 500HP
GT2860 ~600hp
GT28RS ~ 600+hp
"4:1 bias center diff mod"
Can I get some more info on that? Is that like a 25-75% front-rear torque distribution?
#17
02-25-2009, 05:16 PM
I have an RS4 clutch and lwfw on my stage 2, im gonna change it to a Vast setup i think when i put the k04's in next month. Im planning on making more power than the RS4 can handle. I debated RS6's but decided to jsut go with k04's for now. Once im stage 3 ill probably be planning something more serious, i certainly dont plan on stopping
Stasis sells a warentied center diff that puts up to 88% of the TQ to the rear wheels. Its $550 + a $1000 core charge that can be refunded or avoided by sending them your stock torsen.
http://www.stasisengineering.com/Cat...&VID=51&PID=98
An AZ member was (i hope still is?) selling a kit that you install yourself to do the same thing. It works the same way the stasis one does it just isnt warentied. $155
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ias+torsen+mod
Yeah im in NH. that sounds good, Ill send you a PM
http://www.stasisengineering.com/Cat...&VID=51&PID=98
An AZ member was (i hope still is?) selling a kit that you install yourself to do the same thing. It works the same way the stasis one does it just isnt warentied. $155
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ias+torsen+mod
________________________________________
Yeah im in NH. that sounds good, Ill send you a PM
Last edited by SourDieselS4; 02-25-2009 at 05:21 PM.
#18
02-25-2009, 08:55 PM
the difference though between the RS6 and the GT25 in the fact that the GT25 is a ball bearing turbo which could be a faster spooling turbo compared to the rs6.
#19
02-26-2009, 01:33 AM
I'd go GT2860. You don't have to build your motor. Sure it would be beneficial. But you could run a conservative tune, not beat on your turbos and have about 500whp on pump gas.
If you have the cash and want a lot more power, go with the 28rs, built head, and toss in some rods.
If you are in the New England area, I can hook you up with all the labor. Drop it off at the shop and we'll take care of the rest. Just tell us what you want done.
BTW TiAL's are overpriced ****. Until they get their **** straight and lower their price, I'd skip on them..
If you have the cash and want a lot more power, go with the 28rs, built head, and toss in some rods.
If you are in the New England area, I can hook you up with all the labor. Drop it off at the shop and we'll take care of the rest. Just tell us what you want done.
BTW TiAL's are overpriced ****. Until they get their **** straight and lower their price, I'd skip on them..
#20
02-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Well what about manifolds? do they bolt right up as the 650 kit? and as far as the labor goes i am a technician...so instructuions period would be awesome but just where to locate good trustworthy parts at a decent price would be more appreciated... and just how much boost will i be running with what youve described? you really seem to be thinking right along the lines of where im wanting to go with my car...so ill probably pm you later and discuss this project more in depth... and im in central kentucky...so getting it to boston would be interesting but not very doable...lol...thanks again deb