Skilled Immigrants on Why They're Leaving the U.S.
#1
07-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Skilled Immigrants on Why They're Leaving the U.S.
A long wait for a green card, coupled with the soft U.S. economy, is prompting an exodus of some of the best and brightest
Lured by the prospect of climbing to the top of his field, New Delhi native Swaroop Ganguly came to the U.S. 10 years ago and earned a PhD in electrical and computer engineering from the University of Texas at Austin in 2005. He became an expert in an emerging technology called spintronics, used to power semiconductors, and worked at several chip companies, including Freescale Semiconductor. But Ganguly, now 32, is moving back to India this summer. Although he has been doing postdoctoral work at the University of Texas, he figures his prospects for research and professional development are probably better in his home country. "I feel quite excited about going back," he says.
Ganguly has already accepted a job as a professor of electrical engineering at the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay. The position will pay a fraction of the salary he had been earning in the private sector -- about $15,000 compared with $100,000 -- but it will offer considerably more job security and the freedom to do the exploratory research he wants to do. "The real lure of being in the U.S. is to do really innovative work, but the space for that seems to be shrinking," he says. 'The Indian government is putting a huge amount of funding into science and technology, so even if they can't pay high salaries, it's an attractive prospect.'
A Blow to Prospects for Economic Recovery
But the issue is tricky when it comes to the most educated and skilled immigrants -- people like Ganguly. When well-paid individuals leave the country, that cuts into already depleted tax revenues for state and local governments. The departure of top talent in technology and science may also undercut the prospects for a recovery in the U.S., many economists say. These immigrants often start companies and come up with technological breakthroughs, creating new job opportunities for all.
"We benefit from a flow of really smart people coming here to work in our companies and start new ones," says David Hart, a professor of public policy at George Mason University in Arlington, Va., who co-authored a study on immigrant entrepreneurship released this month. "It's important that the U.S. remain a magnet for people who fuel innovation and growth."
The Obama Administration has said it will push for comprehensive immigration reform later this year, but it's unclear if any legislation will pass or how it would affect skilled immigrants. One unresolved issue is how to define a "skilled" immigrant.
Other Lands of Opportunity: China and India
Advocates for skilled immigrants emphasize the value they create and warn against developing overly restrictive policies. Dr. Jan Vilcek, a professor of microbiology at New York University School of Medicine, defected from Czechoslovakia in 1964 and is now renowned in his field for treatments he developed for chronic illnesses such as Crohn's disease. He co-founded a New York-based nonprofit called the Vilcek Foundation to enhance the public profile of exceptional immigrants. "Foreign-born entrepreneurs and scientists are a tremendous asset to the U.S. economy," Vilcek says. "It is tragic that bureaucratic obstacles are preventing more talented and motivated people from helping to get us out of the economic slump."
"We're in a recession, and there is enough good talent now [in the U.S.], but long term, it will hurt like you won't believe," says Wadhwa, who is also a BusinessWeek.com columnist. "Losing critical talent means arming the U.S.'s competition. The next Google (GOOG), Microsoft (MSFT), or Apple (AAPL) could be launched in Shanghai or Bangalore."
Green Card Applicants Have a Long Wait
Kapil, a 33-year-old software consultant for IBM (IBM) in Silicon Valley, shares Vilcek's frustration. [Kapil asked that his last name not be used out of concern for his job.] He joined IBM in 2001 with the hope of gaining permanent residency in the U.S. so he could ultimately start his own company. IBM filed an application for his green card for permanent residence in 2004, and he has yet to receive it. Due to limits that allow for just 9,800 green cards per year per country, the wait for people from India and China can be up to 10 years. Kapil estimates that his five-year wait could stretch into 7 or 10. In the meantime, he remains on an H-1B visa tied to IBM, where he must keep the same position to remain in the green card queue. He's earning six figures now, he says, but suspects he could earn more if he had the freedom to change jobs. "I'm not allowed to advance, and it's really frustrating," says Kapil. "At this point, I'm losing my patience."
Kapil is eager to found a startup. He has developed the technology for an online job-search engine that taps into social networks such as Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. He says he is considering launching it from India. "Most likely, I am heading back," he says. "In a way, I feel cheated. I've contributed, paid taxes, and even picked up a California accent. But it's not enough."
Arun Kumar, 30, is also in the U.S. on an H-1B visa and is considering moving to Canada. Kumar, who lives just north of Philadelphia, works for a U.S. bank and is helping to develop a startup within the company. His employer, the name of which he asked not be used, put in his application for a green card last year. Kumar realizes that it could take years for his application to move through the queue, and he's growing restless to start his own business. He has the capital to launch his product, an educational tool to help sixth- to eighth-graders learn math and science. But he doesn't want to do so in the U.S. because assuming a new job or even changing titles within his own company would nullify his existing green card application. Kumar and his wife are now considering moving to Toronto, where they could more quickly become permanent residents.
"I feel restricted here," says Kumar. "I understand the U.S. has a responsibility to its citizens, and I understand its dilemma. But the country would be better off if it could isolate and identify skilled workers who want to come here and build things and welcome them in."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32...ekcom
Lured by the prospect of climbing to the top of his field, New Delhi native Swaroop Ganguly came to the U.S. 10 years ago and earned a PhD in electrical and computer engineering from the University of Texas at Austin in 2005. He became an expert in an emerging technology called spintronics, used to power semiconductors, and worked at several chip companies, including Freescale Semiconductor. But Ganguly, now 32, is moving back to India this summer. Although he has been doing postdoctoral work at the University of Texas, he figures his prospects for research and professional development are probably better in his home country. "I feel quite excited about going back," he says.
Ganguly has already accepted a job as a professor of electrical engineering at the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay. The position will pay a fraction of the salary he had been earning in the private sector -- about $15,000 compared with $100,000 -- but it will offer considerably more job security and the freedom to do the exploratory research he wants to do. "The real lure of being in the U.S. is to do really innovative work, but the space for that seems to be shrinking," he says. 'The Indian government is putting a huge amount of funding into science and technology, so even if they can't pay high salaries, it's an attractive prospect.'
A Blow to Prospects for Economic Recovery
But the issue is tricky when it comes to the most educated and skilled immigrants -- people like Ganguly. When well-paid individuals leave the country, that cuts into already depleted tax revenues for state and local governments. The departure of top talent in technology and science may also undercut the prospects for a recovery in the U.S., many economists say. These immigrants often start companies and come up with technological breakthroughs, creating new job opportunities for all.
"We benefit from a flow of really smart people coming here to work in our companies and start new ones," says David Hart, a professor of public policy at George Mason University in Arlington, Va., who co-authored a study on immigrant entrepreneurship released this month. "It's important that the U.S. remain a magnet for people who fuel innovation and growth."
The Obama Administration has said it will push for comprehensive immigration reform later this year, but it's unclear if any legislation will pass or how it would affect skilled immigrants. One unresolved issue is how to define a "skilled" immigrant.
Other Lands of Opportunity: China and India
Advocates for skilled immigrants emphasize the value they create and warn against developing overly restrictive policies. Dr. Jan Vilcek, a professor of microbiology at New York University School of Medicine, defected from Czechoslovakia in 1964 and is now renowned in his field for treatments he developed for chronic illnesses such as Crohn's disease. He co-founded a New York-based nonprofit called the Vilcek Foundation to enhance the public profile of exceptional immigrants. "Foreign-born entrepreneurs and scientists are a tremendous asset to the U.S. economy," Vilcek says. "It is tragic that bureaucratic obstacles are preventing more talented and motivated people from helping to get us out of the economic slump."
"We're in a recession, and there is enough good talent now [in the U.S.], but long term, it will hurt like you won't believe," says Wadhwa, who is also a BusinessWeek.com columnist. "Losing critical talent means arming the U.S.'s competition. The next Google (GOOG), Microsoft (MSFT), or Apple (AAPL) could be launched in Shanghai or Bangalore."
Green Card Applicants Have a Long Wait
Kapil, a 33-year-old software consultant for IBM (IBM) in Silicon Valley, shares Vilcek's frustration. [Kapil asked that his last name not be used out of concern for his job.] He joined IBM in 2001 with the hope of gaining permanent residency in the U.S. so he could ultimately start his own company. IBM filed an application for his green card for permanent residence in 2004, and he has yet to receive it. Due to limits that allow for just 9,800 green cards per year per country, the wait for people from India and China can be up to 10 years. Kapil estimates that his five-year wait could stretch into 7 or 10. In the meantime, he remains on an H-1B visa tied to IBM, where he must keep the same position to remain in the green card queue. He's earning six figures now, he says, but suspects he could earn more if he had the freedom to change jobs. "I'm not allowed to advance, and it's really frustrating," says Kapil. "At this point, I'm losing my patience."
Kapil is eager to found a startup. He has developed the technology for an online job-search engine that taps into social networks such as Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. He says he is considering launching it from India. "Most likely, I am heading back," he says. "In a way, I feel cheated. I've contributed, paid taxes, and even picked up a California accent. But it's not enough."
Arun Kumar, 30, is also in the U.S. on an H-1B visa and is considering moving to Canada. Kumar, who lives just north of Philadelphia, works for a U.S. bank and is helping to develop a startup within the company. His employer, the name of which he asked not be used, put in his application for a green card last year. Kumar realizes that it could take years for his application to move through the queue, and he's growing restless to start his own business. He has the capital to launch his product, an educational tool to help sixth- to eighth-graders learn math and science. But he doesn't want to do so in the U.S. because assuming a new job or even changing titles within his own company would nullify his existing green card application. Kumar and his wife are now considering moving to Toronto, where they could more quickly become permanent residents.
"I feel restricted here," says Kumar. "I understand the U.S. has a responsibility to its citizens, and I understand its dilemma. But the country would be better off if it could isolate and identify skilled workers who want to come here and build things and welcome them in."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32...ekcom
#2
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Its a shame that illegal immigrants with very few skills who become a burden to our society enjoy less harassment from the government than these intelligent and ambitous individuals.
The development of the atomic bomb and the success of the space program depended heavily on the countries ability to attract and retain world class talent.
Unfortunately, this country is running from its past and leaving common sense in the dust.
The development of the atomic bomb and the success of the space program depended heavily on the countries ability to attract and retain world class talent.
Unfortunately, this country is running from its past and leaving common sense in the dust.
#3
07-29-2009, 01:10 PM
Obama for the win!! So far he has done everything he promised!! LOLZ OK, we're fucked. One day soon a world war will happen and the economy will be jump started once more. There ain't **** Oreo over there in the White house can do.
#4
07-29-2009, 04:06 PM
Cherry pickers or engineers/entrepreneurs/doctors?
Its a shame that illegal immigrants with very few skills who become a burden to our society enjoy less harassment from the government than these intelligent and ambitous individuals.
The development of the atomic bomb and the success of the space program depended heavily on the countries ability to attract and retain world class talent.
Unfortunately, this country is running from its past and leaving common sense in the dust.
The development of the atomic bomb and the success of the space program depended heavily on the countries ability to attract and retain world class talent.
Unfortunately, this country is running from its past and leaving common sense in the dust.
As long as Lou Dobbs is on the air, nobody is going to pay any attention to the legal immigration process and the problems its fraught with.
Most people think of illegal Mexicans when they think of immigration problems and reform. It is like the skilled immigrants do not have a voice or a platform.
Hopefully the current Obama administration has the smarts to pursue legal immigration reform before solving the illegal immigration issue.
It is time America chose between cherry pickers and engineers/entrepreneurs/doctors
#5
07-29-2009, 04:41 PM
It's hard not to focus on illegal immigration when your state is overrun with them, costing billions of dollars while IOUs are being given out instead of checks. Or when your kid is stuck in a class that's teaching in Spanish because 98% of the kids' parents jumped the fence and now the kids are citizens. And the bleeding hearts are pushing for the illegals' right to have a driver's license. I agree with your points, but where I'm from there is no shortage of engineers from India or Mexican cherry pickers. The ones that are impacting me most are the ones that don't pay tax but use up the state's limited resources.
#6
07-29-2009, 06:37 PM
There's from immigrants to immigrants. I'm hispanic, (mexican born in the states) and everyone I know that had no documents had better jobs and better quality of life than I did when I was a civilian, that's for not paying taxes!! They had more than one house, that by they way they didn't lost with the market crash. There's the need for some immigrants, but the ones that have all the oportunities are the ones that get out of work and get their wife pregnant with 18 kids and proceed to create lowlifes that rob cars and **** like that. I don't really like immigrants even though my parents were immigrants and so is most of my relatives; but that doesn't mean that I agree with their way of life.
#7
07-29-2009, 06:53 PM
we should be promoting the idea that smart, hard working people can come here and succeed without restriction.
instead, we punish those who are successful and reward those who make poor decisions
this is not the American spirit
it is amazing to me that the question of illegal immigration is even a debate, we are not the worlds welfare state, get in line and follow the law, work hard and quit complaining, liberal politicians care about votes and about making people dependent on the government and care a lot less about making people depend on their own merits
keep the change
instead, we punish those who are successful and reward those who make poor decisions
this is not the American spirit
it is amazing to me that the question of illegal immigration is even a debate, we are not the worlds welfare state, get in line and follow the law, work hard and quit complaining, liberal politicians care about votes and about making people dependent on the government and care a lot less about making people depend on their own merits
keep the change
#8
07-29-2009, 08:05 PM
Undocumented immigrants....
Oh people, come on please!
Not everything Lou Dobbs says is the truth...especially when it comes to immigration....
The idea that every illegal immigrant comes here jumping the mexican border is false!
Many of the illegal immigrants here today came on student visas, work visas, tourist visas and for one reason or another just became out of status....
Where I live there are many brazilians...yes, most of them are undocumented but I know a lot of them that do have college degrees (engineers, teachers, nurses....) problem is they simply do not have enough jobs down there....
And the idea that they do not pay taxes is simply wrong.....they do pay taxes even those who do not have a social security number. The government issues a itin number so they can file their taxes.... And trust me the majority of them do pay it....here where I live there are at least 3 brazilian tax houses...
As for having nice homes...yeah...they do...why? Because they often have more than 2 jobs....I know a guy who works more than 90 hours a week...
Guys...they are not here to steal our money....they are here to help our country move foward, they love our country, they are already here raising their children, trying to live the the "american life"
Yes, the government should take care of the legal immigrants too, I totally agree with that, but deporting 12million people is impossible....those who are here paying taxes, learning English, keeping themselves out of trouble should have a chance to stay as well...
Our ancestors came here (most of them were uneducated) looking for a better life for their familly....ok, many came legally, but do you think that if there was no way of comming here legally back then and they found themselves starving to death back in their home country they would not even try to come here illegaly in order to save their families? You know they would try!!!
Give this people a chance...I do agree with sending the ones with criminal records back home...but the ones that are just trying to have a better life...I don't think it's a good idea...
Have a nice day everyone!
Not everything Lou Dobbs says is the truth...especially when it comes to immigration....
The idea that every illegal immigrant comes here jumping the mexican border is false!
Many of the illegal immigrants here today came on student visas, work visas, tourist visas and for one reason or another just became out of status....
Where I live there are many brazilians...yes, most of them are undocumented but I know a lot of them that do have college degrees (engineers, teachers, nurses....) problem is they simply do not have enough jobs down there....
And the idea that they do not pay taxes is simply wrong.....they do pay taxes even those who do not have a social security number. The government issues a itin number so they can file their taxes.... And trust me the majority of them do pay it....here where I live there are at least 3 brazilian tax houses...
As for having nice homes...yeah...they do...why? Because they often have more than 2 jobs....I know a guy who works more than 90 hours a week...
Guys...they are not here to steal our money....they are here to help our country move foward, they love our country, they are already here raising their children, trying to live the the "american life"
Yes, the government should take care of the legal immigrants too, I totally agree with that, but deporting 12million people is impossible....those who are here paying taxes, learning English, keeping themselves out of trouble should have a chance to stay as well...
Our ancestors came here (most of them were uneducated) looking for a better life for their familly....ok, many came legally, but do you think that if there was no way of comming here legally back then and they found themselves starving to death back in their home country they would not even try to come here illegaly in order to save their families? You know they would try!!!
Give this people a chance...I do agree with sending the ones with criminal records back home...but the ones that are just trying to have a better life...I don't think it's a good idea...
Have a nice day everyone!
#10
07-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Dont be so naive.
Its great that some illegal immigrants actually contribute to the system. But many do not. Hundreds of people illegally cross the border everyday, and come here and feel that this country owes them something. And a lot of the ones who do work send most of their money back to their home country.
I dont think a lack of opportunity in you home country should auomatically qualify you for citizenship in this one. I understand that they want to improve their lives, but breaking our laws and jumping in front of those who do obey the laws is not the right way to do things.
Like I said before, get in line. Dont feel entitled, and follow the LAWS!
Its great that some illegal immigrants actually contribute to the system. But many do not. Hundreds of people illegally cross the border everyday, and come here and feel that this country owes them something. And a lot of the ones who do work send most of their money back to their home country.
I dont think a lack of opportunity in you home country should auomatically qualify you for citizenship in this one. I understand that they want to improve their lives, but breaking our laws and jumping in front of those who do obey the laws is not the right way to do things.
Like I said before, get in line. Dont feel entitled, and follow the LAWS!