If your talking to me. You get the huge NO FUCl<ING **** MAN

 

don't take the **** the toilets do that, I've been in wars you know though I don't brag of it

 

im not gona argue through your whole thread but this statement i cant agree with. do you really think that this problem is just gona go away is we leave it alone? thats like dropping a lit cig in a bunch of dry leaves. at first the problem is small, just a little cig on fire so you walk away thinkin it will just burn out. but then the cig lights all the leaves and then spreads until it becomes a ragin fire. now you are f*cked. why not just put out the damn cig with a size 13 boot? i doubt the terrorists will just "go away" as you so hopely believe. they are extreme enough in their belief that they are willing to blow themselves up and die for their faith. that kind of passion doesn't just fizzle out

 

G we got a couple of members fired up at least?

 

My apologies, mate, perhaps I wasn't quite clear on the that - "containment" through sanctions and controlled military action. Though your analogy about dry leaves seems right - if you go a step further and say that said leaves were in a steel box even if lit, then there is no spread. Never once did I say that terrorism will just go away - what my initial claim was that our tactics are unjust. This is a war for special groups - not all out war governed by Geneva Convention rules of warfare. It's like using a bulldozer on a house to kill the cockroaches - it never works - they just crawl to the next house to infest. Look at Israel. As much as they stomp on Lebanon - they have never achieved "peace" just rests between attack waves saddly.

History will show you what insurgencies do - America itself is a classic example. We fought the British oppression to claim our land - do you think the Vietnamese or Iraqis will feel no different? We are foriegners there - nothing more. We, as Americans, feel that our Revolution was a just cause - but what is not popularly known is that the majority of Americans were in favor of British rule not self government. And men like Washington, Adams, Jefferson and others would be considered militant extremeist by today's standards... They won and we are now who we are...

But what gives us the right to be there? We have none - it is not our land. During WW I and II we stayed our of the "their war" as long as we could. We did not jump in at the get go. But now we do. So far, WMD was all a smoke screen. Yes, Saddam was a tyrant that killed thousands. But honestly, it is the Iraqis that need to overthrow him. The Italians did it to Mussolini and the French beheaded their own with their revolution. Almost all tyrants get toppled - it is rare to see one live to a ripe old age retirement.

We have to understand that regardless of religious dogma, each country has a right to govern themselves - right or wrong. Only here, as in some others, we have attempted to separate church and state... somewhat effectively. Only time will tell if that holds up.

Again, this string has stirred up more than it's worth and let's get back to this - perhaps Rumsfeld's resignation will finally get something accomplished in Iraq and our troops home. Speaking only for myself, I've had a couple of old friends hurt there - one completely lost his legs to an IED - that's too big a price to cure someone else's internal problem.

 

o sorry bout the misunderstanding. so, in your opinion, what do you think we should do?

personally i think we have a right to be there in order to protect ourselves. these groups have clearly stated that they want us dead. i think if we just left them alone we are only giving them the opportunity for another 9/11

 

Well, mate - no one country (even one as powerful as the US) has no right to cross borders like we did in Iraq. It opens up a can of worms for others to follow - who's to say that China can't invade India and Pakistan over the dispute of the Kashmer region? Or take over North Korea? By the way - all three have nukes at hand... Now Afghanistan was a justified cause for harboring and refusing to release bin Laden. But Iraq was wrong - though probably a good thing for the region, no doubt, but still fundamentally unjustified.

As for what can we do? Everything we can to protect our borders and contain the borders of countries that harbor or fuel such terrorist activities. Create crack teams to infiltrate and expose and in some cases, destroy such organizations where ever they hide with help of the UN - whether this will be a CIA or military endeavor is anyone's guess. This can be far more economical both in money and human resources to do than all out war.

9/11 was a wakeup call - the Israelis deal with such things on an almost daily basis - England was bombed regularly by the IRA before the Islamic extrememeist took over that task - remember Lockerby? Nearly every nation in Europe dealt with these issues well before 9/11. It was almost inevitable and to most national analysts should have happened sooner.

They tried once before with a carbomb to topple the WTC - yet did we increase security? A little - but obviously not enough or 9/11 would never have happened.

You can never fully predict when and where cockroaches will come into your home - you just keep yourself and home as clean as possible and hope the neighbors do the same. But you can't go flattening their house if they don't.

Here's the ironic thing, mate - just last night I caught one of the national Christian networks advertising how they are linked into over 100 satelites to broadcast the gospel into every corner of the globe. How would you feel as a Christian to start seeing Islamic stations cropping up on your sets telling you that Jesus is just a false prophet and not the son of God? Because that's essentially what we are doing to them - right or wrong. Every Christian feels that the Holy Bible is gospel and will protect those beliefs (some to the death - look at those nuts that bomb abortion clinics) - why would those that follow the Koran be any different?

Just food for thought...

 

liberal bastards only know cut and run strategies. grow some *****.

 

Typical gung-ho George Bush leg humper response.

 

Well, mate, it's got something to do with ***** but having the brains and personal respect to know when and where to use them is mostly the case.

Personally, I'm far from being a liberal but having traveled and lived abroad you begin to understand that we, as Americans, live a very unique lifestyle with 24/7 access to almost anything. So I've come to respect that. When stationed in Germany I learned as much about the language as I could in the 4 years there - yet here immigrants come here and expect me to be able to speak Spanish because they need their car back from police impound.

You're a flyer, right? Perhaps you already know how most Europe countries shut down at 7 pm. Even the Canadians don't have it like we do. There is simply no other nation on this planet like the US in how we operate and live our lives here. Ask any British citizen, they are taxed to death - to include getting television channels we get for free here without cable.

But that still doesn't give us the right to impose ourselves on others - even the Monroe Doctrine which told the Europeans to stay the hell out of the Americas and if they chose to colonize any more countries it would be considered an act of aggression against the US - also went on to say that we would ignore their border strifes. One reason we took so long to get involved in both World Wars.

Now here we are doing the same to others... Manifest Destiny, anyone? Some see the Iraq war as American colonization - seems like what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander...

You can make America strong without commiting our forces thinly across the globe.