Not really. I think it's a pretty good comparison. There were a certain number of ***** that believed in the cause. We killed a significant number of them until the rest folded. The same can occur with Islamic terrorists/extremists. Keep in mind that the Allies killed millions of Germans and leveled entire cities and obviously we haven't put that kind of heat on any Islamic society yet.

Well, all of the political leadership in the West is constantly going on about how "Islam is a religion of peace", implying that you don't have to defeat Islam, you only have to defeat a small segment of extremists using Islam. You may or may not believe that premise. The position certainly has some merit, as we would all agree that there are many millions of Muslims that don't want to blow up anybody for being an infidel or whatever. So religious convictions do not have to be defeated for us to all get along. We didn't need to defeat racism in Germany either. We had to stop those that were killing others as a result of their racist beliefs. No one cares if a group of Muslims thinks that all infidels are going to miss out on Paradise. You only have to worry about those that are willing to kill you because you aren't a Muslim or any other reason.

There have been some bad ones, but that doesn't really change anything in the here and now. This is not the Crusades for some "holy land" or some battle between two or more religions(Even though Islamic propaganda says that it is). This is about how people on this planet are going to live in the 21st century. Are they going to live under the oppression of Islamic extremists or some other form of government? Muslims can live in a democracy. They do it all over the world every single day. The Taliban types simply cannot be allowed to win and Islam doesn't require that we allow them to. Muslims would get along fine without Islamic terrorists. Muslims have not started to marginalize extremists yet, but that is because we have not made it costly enough to fail to do so.

I'm not suggesting that the US use nukes. It's a bad idea and we don't need to. However, I do think that there is a certain amount of conventional destructive power that can be brought to bear that ends all forms of resistance. The US has chosen so far to not use that level of force because you kill a lot of innocents in the process. Firebombing cities in WWII killed a lot more than soldiers. It destroyed the infrastructure and killed the people that supported the enemy as well. Not to mention being highly demoralizing to a cause. Starvation and disease start to take out as many people as the fighting.

Right now Islamic terrorists are waiting for us to get tired of fighting and go home. Bin Laden has already predicted that to be the outcome. That's why he gambled in the first place, after seeing how we acted in Somalia and when attacked in other ways. I think we would be wise to prove him wrong. There is going to be a real showdown. We can keep working on it now or we can pull out, let them get stronger, gain in confidence and numbers and fight them years from now. Maybe when they have North Korean, Pakistani or Iranian nukes in their arsenal and are all packed and ready to go to Paradise.

 

I think pturbo when u are talking bout Islamics, we are talking bout the fanactics in Syria, Palastine, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon and there is more just cant think of them!

See the Iraqi fanatics are all getting funds from other fanatical Islamic States - so u see the probs not jus in Iraq but most of the Middle East![:'(]

If the US wonts to subdue the fanatical Islamic it needs most of the World to help it

 

I'm afraid pturbo is dead right…the operative word being "DEAD" We can fight them now, or fight them later but make no mistake, we will fight them. It's a battle to the end, and the future of the world is at stake. It's who's terms we will battle on..thiers or ours. Next is Iran. They're just watching and waiting to see what we do..

 

man reading this thread just reminds me of what a sad world we live in[&o]

 

Exactly & what a lucki country we live in[sm=americanasmiley.gif][sm=exactly.gif]

U just hope all the soilder, civilians, engineers and all who have lost there lives or been dis -membered etc, its not in vain[sm=patriot.gif]


As NightFlight said Iran is watching, lurking and stirring the pot. Could u imagine trying to invade Iran? Doesnt it have over 100 million people? U think Iraq was hard nuff nightmare to contain?

 

exactly. which is why i agree with pturbo. we definitely shouldn't just pull out and i support goin at them and goin at them hard. may not be fair to the innocent people in iraq, but it sure as hell ain't fair to all the soldiers dying and all the other people who have been killed by the terrorists either. its just gona take someone with the ***** to put that kinda plan into action. someone who isn't afraid of all the bad press it would bring. half the world would hate this person, but if successful that person would have saved countless other people in the future.

 

Maybe Geroge Bush Senior should make a come back?

Show W how its really done?

 

Funny, I originally posted here to expose a different perspective to the bashing that was going on - now I find myself having to defend them...

So this we can completely agree upon that pulling out now would truly be a waste of time, mate, we started something and it would be heartless to walk away and allow themselves to build on their own - but to suggest that we need to go into Iran is sheer lunacy.

If 3 years of teaching military doctrine to officers and 20 years of military service has taught me anything - it is this.

Lives are a resource not a commodity.

To suggest turning our already tired men and women of our armed forces on to another lengthy war is truly an exercise in futility. To suggest we trade more lives so we can feel better about world affairs is not the path any American should follow.

Allow me to point out a few major gaps in yours and pturbo's suggestion:

Currently there are more rested and well dug in troops in Iran at the moment than Iraq had.
We are currently deploying 40% of our National Guard and Resrve forces just for this current war.
This is no active draft to replenish.

Soldiers are not machines. War takes a huge toll on their psyche - why do you think tours are normally of a 1 year duration? This is not a 9 to 5 job - it's 24/7 and you need to be alert at all times - complacency causes casualties. Even Blu can atest to this. It grinds some down to nothing and others into something they wish they never become.

So I put it to pturbo and yourself, if you are truly "gung-ho" on this conviction - then go and serve next to them - being an "armchair general" simply won't do and is disrespectful of those sacrificing themselves at this moment.

All fires burn themselves out - remember Quadafi in Libya? Fidel Castro in Cuba?

Sanctions and properly applied military force is the answer to true world peace. Wars are for fighting aggressors. Terrorists are not that. Take a look at Israel. You see them responding to countless insurgent attacks and it has done little to stop the cause. So today you cannot walk into a mall or any large shopping venues in Israel without being subjected to an intense personal search.

Here, in America, I hear about how troublesome it is to have to spend an extra hour or two going through current security measures locally.

When Bush Sr. went and pushed Saddam out of Kuwait - there was much resistance locally - both here and there. But he did exactly what he said he would do - thus stopping the march on Baghdad. It showed great restraint and remarkable foresight and won us great admiration in the Arab world.

W has ripped asunder that hard fought respect his father earned the US with the war in Iraq. Afganistan - yes, that was a good cause - ask anyone from that region - the Taliban were a scourge and they happen to be protecting the very man that orchestrated the single worst attack on American soil.

But Iraq was a mistake - a greedy, misled one at that - but it is done and we do need to see it through and bring as many, if not all, of our fellow patriots home intact.

But enough of the history lessons, mates. Today is Veteran's Day and I have a parade to help organize. Wave a flag today if you can.

[sm=americanasmiley.gif]

 

For being such a good "Christian," George Bush sure is good at ignoring all the Christians in Iraq and allowing them to suffer.

 

a politician and a person of the cloth should stay well apart ( they dont mix ) like oil and water, keep YOUR faith to your self and your god with you