The link isn't working for me for some reason. I'll try it again later.

 

Hmm.. Here, try this: http://www.therant.us/staff/kraft/10242006.htm
It's a near future senario that gave me a real bad feeling when I read it. I'm a scientific kind of guy and deal in probabilities with most of my judgement calls. This left me feeling too many ducks are already lined up...

I wish it could be bedtime reading for every Dem and Lib in this country No LOL

 

President Gavin Newsom? Good God! That is a dark vision of the future.

Seriously, I don't think that a lot of people realize the seriousness of the threat. I hope that it doesn't take what is described there for them to figure it out, but it probably will.

 

Reads like a Clancy novel and though highly imaginative - some said the same about 9/11 - it is still a distinct possiblity. Though ghastly in it's choice of targets 9/11 was a brilliantly laid out plan and even through minor mishaps (Moussoui's capture, etc) it was still executed well enough to due was it was intended to do.

The only thing we can do is prepare ourselves for any possiblity - regardless of how outlandish or absurb it may seem - and hope for the best.

As long as there are differences of opinion, in religion or politics, there will be conflict - no doubt about it. How strongly those differences run depends how hard conflict will become.

As a child growing up in the 60's/70's era - the threat of nuclear all out MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) war with the Soviets was a distinct possibilty - though it never happened, I honestly feel that all the movies, literature and discussions about the "What if..." outcomes of such a war, made those in power think several times before a button would have been pushed.

Like pturbo said, politicians come and go - but that's politicians for you - they have an inherrent instinct to save one's own *** over and above all things... crisis seemingly was adverted.

So now we have a religious centric conflict with those that death only serves to elevate one's status to a glory found no where else. Borders are forgotten, treaties are ignored - only one's single minded beliefs are the driving force behind the motive and action. Where one can strap on a bomb and strike a devestating blow to their enemy. A seemingly fair, if not righteous, trade for that glorious status.

Fighting a known target or threat is one thing - fighting thousands (possibily hundreds of thousands) single, viable targets or threats is an entirely different war, mates.

We need to finish and stabilize Iraq - no doubt. Leaving now would be more costly and sheer stupidity - one reason we never should have went there in the first place - so we need to get some since of stability there. Pounding countries into the ground is not the answer here - conventional warfare will fail against an unconventional adversary.

But here's another point of view (and I appologize for the length of my responses - though too late now [8D])....

Saddam was a thorn in everyone's side - the Iranians hated him, Kuwait was invaded by him, he even lobbed missiles into Saudi Arabia soil (though at US targets), but it was us that took him out of the equation... Not a smart move - you want to keep your enemies off balance and in that he served a purpose.

As for that "scenerio" that NightFlight exposed us to - do you truly believe that the Saudi's, Egyptians and most of the Middle East allow something that huge to destroy their economies as well? The Saudi's owe too much to the world economy than we know and are not prepared to "go it alone" in the region they live...

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Palindari

Reads like a Clancy novel and though highly imaginative - some said the same about 9/11 - it is still a distinct possiblity.

As for that "scenerio" that NightFlight exposed us to - do you truly believe that the Saudi's, Egyptians and most of the Middle East allow something that huge to destroy their economies as well? The Saudi's owe too much to the world economy than we know and are not prepared to "go it alone" in the region they live...



It is imaginative, but the technology and the motive exists. The means to aquire it are becoming apparant. Is the concept really that much of a stretch? All it will take is the right circumstances to occur, and there is already some momentum there..

Unfortuneatly, I believe that the more moderate Muslim nations ie; Jordan, Suadi Arabia and Egypt will ultimately have no control over what the smaller but powerful Muslim factions (Iran) will do. It's thier belief that it's thier mission to destroy the "Great Satan" and no one is going to stop them..

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: NightFlight


Saudi Arabia is a moderate muslim nation? Are you freaking kidding me?

 

Saudi Arabia is a moderate muslim nation? Are you freaking kidding me?
[/quote]



Relatively speaking..

 

Relatively speaking..
[/quote]
haha they are the most hardline out of all muslim countries. They don't even let women drive, or leave the house without a male with them. And there are only certain places where Christians are allowed to go, because they are considered "filthy."

 

Not to call anyone a "Chicken Little" here... but if all you saw from the US is the anti-abortionist activists - or take your pick of any nut with a cause for that matter - you'd think we slaughtered our young here by the truckloads.

Countries like Saudi Arabia have far too much to lose. It's hard not to laugh at people here in the States that claim there are simply rich and the poor in America - hell, take a look at Saudi Arabia. The royals there live extravagantly and then there's those that are employed by them - the rest are poor - very poor and oppressed in their rights of education and such. If the US is taken down then who do you think they, Muslim extremeist, will turn their attentions to? They know this already. Even bin Laden is considered an outlaw in Saudi Arabia - well before 9/11 - for his distaste and protests of the ways of life in his homeland.

To say Iran is a powerful nation is a stretch, but not by much.

As for that nuke scenerio happening... that's a truly iffy call. There are so many factors involved to pull such a maneuver off that chances of it going unnoticed is very slim at best.

Look at it from this point of view - a large operation like that discribed in that article will take planning and precision - that though it currently exists would require training above and beyond what 9/11 took. Even current military operations never go completely as planned - the larger the scale the greater chance of exposure and possible failure. One of Clancy's biggest failings as a author, imo, is he removes the "human factor" - most of his stories show operations that go nearly flawlessly or if a snafu occurs it wasn't planned for. The term "**** Happens" occurs throughout history due mostly to the fact that humans are fallable. We don't pay close enough attention, fall asleep while on duty - so on and so forth. Even with 9/11 these idiots were stupid enough to draw attention themselves when they didn't want to learn take-off and landing procedures - the most crucial part of pilot training - unfortunately we were even BIGGER idiots to not follow through on the concerns of the flight instructors that raised the flag on it.

Now one boat with say two of three missiles off Chesapeake Bay is most likely to be the most workable example - not one requiring 20 odd boats, crews and missile launches. Logistically, that would be hard pressed to keep "under the radar" from anyone.

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Palindari

Not to call anyone a "Chicken Little" here... but if all you saw from the US is the anti-abortionist activists - or take your pick of any nut with a cause for that matter - you'd think we slaughtered our young here by the truckloads.

Countries like Saudi Arabia have far too much to lose. It's hard not to laugh at people here in the States that claim there are simply rich and the poor in America - hell, take a look at Saudi Arabia. The royals there live extravagantly and then there's those that are employed by them - the rest are poor - very poor and oppressed in their rights of education and such. If the US is taken down then who do you think they, Muslim extremeist, will turn their attentions to? They know this already. Even bin Laden is considered an outlaw in Saudi Arabia - well before 9/11 - for his distaste and protests of the ways of life in his homeland.

To say Iran is a powerful nation is a stretch, but not by much.


Bok Bok!!
Seriously now, I didn’t mean to come across as “DR. Doomsday” by posting that link. I do believe however in the old adage of “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” In this application I was suggesting this little piece of fiction as a portrayal of what these people are capable of, given the means. They have the motive. It a good heads up read, especially for those that live in a state of denial about the potential future of this country, and there are many..

PS; I agree with your reasoning about the Saudis, et all. I just think their ability to control the extremists is dubious, at best.


Bok Bok!!
Seriously now, I didn’t mean to come across as “DR. Doomsday” by posting that link. I do believe however in the old adage of “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” In this application I was suggesting this little piece of fiction as a portrayal of what these people are capable of, given the means. They have the motive. It a good heads up read, especially for those that live in a state of denial about the potential future of this country, and there are many..

PS; I agree with your reasoning about the Saudis, et all. I just think their ability to control the extremists is dubious, at best.

Bok Bok!!
Seriously now, I didn’t mean to come across as “DR. Doomsday” by posting that link. I do believe however in the old adage of “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” In this application I was suggesting this little piece of fiction as a portrayal of what these people are capable of, given the means. They have the motive. It's a good heads up read, especially for those that live in a state of denial about the potential future of this country, and there are many..

PS; I agree with your reasoning about the Saudis, et all. I just think their ability to control the extremists is dubious, at best.