Insult to George Washington
#11
04-01-2009, 04:40 PM
Mostly agree.... The 'problem childs" like AIG should have allowed to actually fail. The stronger backs/investment houses/whatever would have snatched up what was left and we all would have been better for it.
The problem I see with the approach that was taken.. by both administrations.. is the increase in gov't control over companies. That is a slippery slope we really don't wanna go down.
The problem I see with the approach that was taken.. by both administrations.. is the increase in gov't control over companies. That is a slippery slope we really don't wanna go down.
#12
04-01-2009, 05:17 PM
AutoUnionFan and Pallindari: you guys should just exchange phone numbers so you can talk until you are both blue in the face... lol.... but seriously, it seems you too are the most interested in politics which is cool, but not my thing...
#15
04-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Talk Radio!!? Unfortunately, I am too shy and probably too slow for such a format. My arguments are most effective when I have time to digest the information and ponder a response.
I stress to everyone who is opinionated to be self-critical. Our perspectives are determined equally by our knowledge and our ignorance.
Glenn Beck is a tool? It is possible becasue I dont really know the guy. But he has two interests which I beleive are shared by Pali. He is a a scholar of the founding fathers and an advocate of their intentions. I have often heard him mention Thomas Paine and "Common Sense" on his program. The youtube link is based on Thomas Paine's ideas (loosely atleast, the title was misleading). Second, Beck has begun the 9/12 project which is based on the common principles and values that have made this country great. So maybe he cried on his show or used to be a comedian - ad hominem. That does not change the strength of his ideas. Beck may be conservative but he is no where near as partisan as say Keith Olberman or Chris Mathews of MSNBC. Olberman is the biggest joke I have ever seen on a TV "news" program. Just last night, I watched Olberman congratulate himself for having the highest rated cable news program behind the Fox programs. That puts him at 7th by the way. He then proceeded to call Bill O'Reilly the worst person in the world because O'Reilly contended that everyday MSNBC reports negatively about Fox. Kinda strange to fault O'Reilly on that one considering that Olberman was reporting negatively about Fox at the very moment. Then he said that O'Reilly was just upset that Olberman reports the "news". Then he paused for a moment to allow the statement to sink into the viewers, implying somehow that Fox does not report news. I was thinking - O'Reilly has been #1 in the ratings for 100 straight months and somehow Olberman looks down on him. This was all in one 5 min clip from Countdown. I could write a book on why I think Olberman is a doofus and why even though I dont agree with Beck and O'Reilly all the time, I appreciate their interest in honesty, the facts, and open debate.
But this is a digression from the AIG stuff. I mispoke when I said that greed is not really to blame. But the fact is that greed is always on Wall Street so that is nothing unique here. We should also not ignore the greed that is at the heart of goverment. You have elected officials simply abusing their powers to promote their public perception and secure future power. Plain and simple. We have congress passing laws to target specific individuals, an act which is unconstitutional by any measure. The government thrives on double standards. AIG fired all of the people who they felt were negligent, so when will Barny Frank and the others regulators be fired? AIG acted irresponsibly with other peoples money, so when will the goverment decide to act responsibly with tax payer dollars? Corporations control much less of my life than the goverment. Corporations are much more competent than the goverment. Corporations are forced to make cutbacks just like families. The goverment will just raise taxes, borrow and print money, increase debts, increase spending, and at the same time increase their power.
To the point about budget breakdown. Social security and medicare make up the majority of spending by the goverment and the costs of these programs are only rising. Universal healthcare will require an investment that goes way beyond the finaincial burden of two wars and antiterrorism measures. And when the wars wind down, Obama will replace the costs with new permanent programs. His own estimation of the deficit inherent in his plans rose $1,000,000,000,000 ( 1 trillion dollars ) over the last month.
The issue of invasion of privacy that is the focus of the last link is something that I dont have time to comment on at this point. But it smells like soemthing 90Sport would be interested in. I dont know the full scope of the Patriot Act or whether or not it will expire etc. I hear a lot of speculation about what the act implies, but I have failed to hear too many cases of its abuse. I have also failed to hear any cases of terror attacks in the US since 9/11. On the otherhand, I can understand the slipperyness of the slope.
I stress to everyone who is opinionated to be self-critical. Our perspectives are determined equally by our knowledge and our ignorance.
Glenn Beck is a tool? It is possible becasue I dont really know the guy. But he has two interests which I beleive are shared by Pali. He is a a scholar of the founding fathers and an advocate of their intentions. I have often heard him mention Thomas Paine and "Common Sense" on his program. The youtube link is based on Thomas Paine's ideas (loosely atleast, the title was misleading). Second, Beck has begun the 9/12 project which is based on the common principles and values that have made this country great. So maybe he cried on his show or used to be a comedian - ad hominem. That does not change the strength of his ideas. Beck may be conservative but he is no where near as partisan as say Keith Olberman or Chris Mathews of MSNBC. Olberman is the biggest joke I have ever seen on a TV "news" program. Just last night, I watched Olberman congratulate himself for having the highest rated cable news program behind the Fox programs. That puts him at 7th by the way. He then proceeded to call Bill O'Reilly the worst person in the world because O'Reilly contended that everyday MSNBC reports negatively about Fox. Kinda strange to fault O'Reilly on that one considering that Olberman was reporting negatively about Fox at the very moment. Then he said that O'Reilly was just upset that Olberman reports the "news". Then he paused for a moment to allow the statement to sink into the viewers, implying somehow that Fox does not report news. I was thinking - O'Reilly has been #1 in the ratings for 100 straight months and somehow Olberman looks down on him. This was all in one 5 min clip from Countdown. I could write a book on why I think Olberman is a doofus and why even though I dont agree with Beck and O'Reilly all the time, I appreciate their interest in honesty, the facts, and open debate.
But this is a digression from the AIG stuff. I mispoke when I said that greed is not really to blame. But the fact is that greed is always on Wall Street so that is nothing unique here. We should also not ignore the greed that is at the heart of goverment. You have elected officials simply abusing their powers to promote their public perception and secure future power. Plain and simple. We have congress passing laws to target specific individuals, an act which is unconstitutional by any measure. The government thrives on double standards. AIG fired all of the people who they felt were negligent, so when will Barny Frank and the others regulators be fired? AIG acted irresponsibly with other peoples money, so when will the goverment decide to act responsibly with tax payer dollars? Corporations control much less of my life than the goverment. Corporations are much more competent than the goverment. Corporations are forced to make cutbacks just like families. The goverment will just raise taxes, borrow and print money, increase debts, increase spending, and at the same time increase their power.
To the point about budget breakdown. Social security and medicare make up the majority of spending by the goverment and the costs of these programs are only rising. Universal healthcare will require an investment that goes way beyond the finaincial burden of two wars and antiterrorism measures. And when the wars wind down, Obama will replace the costs with new permanent programs. His own estimation of the deficit inherent in his plans rose $1,000,000,000,000 ( 1 trillion dollars ) over the last month.
The issue of invasion of privacy that is the focus of the last link is something that I dont have time to comment on at this point. But it smells like soemthing 90Sport would be interested in. I dont know the full scope of the Patriot Act or whether or not it will expire etc. I hear a lot of speculation about what the act implies, but I have failed to hear too many cases of its abuse. I have also failed to hear any cases of terror attacks in the US since 9/11. On the otherhand, I can understand the slipperyness of the slope.
#17
04-02-2009, 02:20 PM
LOL... Yeah, Olberman is pretty funny - not a Mathews fan - but I would rather watch Olberman than Beck or O'Reilly - simply because he injects sarcastic humor whenever...
Beck seems to me like wolf in sheeps clothing - like it's all an act. Does he really fear for his country? Really, c'mon, Beck, grow a pair and stand up for the Rights our Founding Fathers established for us, because currently the Patriot Act of '02 took a few away and that scares me a great deal more - where were you then??? sorry, I too, digress... lol
But I much prefer Stewart and Colbert over any of them.
That last video was just a hint at all this power the government gobbles up each and everytime a "crisis" arises.
Even current income tax was only for the rich land owners and was to be only temporary... lol...
It takes a certain leader to come in and control that - President Reagan was one of those - even Clinton helped balance the budget (though added burden as well).
What Beck pointed out was correct (sans the tears). But the thing about the government controlling the companies that take the bailout - it's no different like you said of the share holders controlling their interests. Just when you frak up that bad to require billions to save you *** and require your government to be the controlling shareholder of your company... well it's not going to business as usual...
But then again, if you don't - more power to you!
Beck seems to me like wolf in sheeps clothing - like it's all an act. Does he really fear for his country? Really, c'mon, Beck, grow a pair and stand up for the Rights our Founding Fathers established for us, because currently the Patriot Act of '02 took a few away and that scares me a great deal more - where were you then??? sorry, I too, digress... lol
But I much prefer Stewart and Colbert over any of them.
That last video was just a hint at all this power the government gobbles up each and everytime a "crisis" arises.
Even current income tax was only for the rich land owners and was to be only temporary... lol...
It takes a certain leader to come in and control that - President Reagan was one of those - even Clinton helped balance the budget (though added burden as well).
What Beck pointed out was correct (sans the tears). But the thing about the government controlling the companies that take the bailout - it's no different like you said of the share holders controlling their interests. Just when you frak up that bad to require billions to save you *** and require your government to be the controlling shareholder of your company... well it's not going to business as usual...
But then again, if you don't - more power to you!
#18
04-02-2009, 03:29 PM
Missing the point on the bailouts. Giving companies money under certain stipulations is prudent and fair. Giving them money then passing new laws that carry stipulations that were not previously agreed upon is wrong. We agree on the first point. I havnt seen your response to the second.
Completely missing the point about Beck. Not suprised though (didnt you think that conservative meant narrow minded?) since you probably dont read or hear much of what he says. If you goto Fox News right now you will see this article by Mr. Beck:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512101,00.html
where he calls the Patriot Act a step towards fascism. And like I said before he frequently speaks about the founding fathers on his show. He also does not hesitate to critisize Bush era policies. And he was prediciting the economic collapse before it happened. But I guess his upstart as a comedian hurts his credibility? Funny that you admire Olbermans humor and prefer to wacth comedy central over real news shows. Olberman is without doubt more partisan than Beck or O'Reilly. He is also much less informative. And he got his start as a Sports Center anchor (speaking of credibilty). But I guess the sarcasm more than makes up for those flaws? I could argue against Olberman all day. He is a hack. Even MSNBC regretted giving him a real analysts position during the campaign and were forced to apologize for his behavoir. I would suggest, if nothing else, you find a new source of information, mate
Completely missing the point about Beck. Not suprised though (didnt you think that conservative meant narrow minded?) since you probably dont read or hear much of what he says. If you goto Fox News right now you will see this article by Mr. Beck:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512101,00.html
where he calls the Patriot Act a step towards fascism. And like I said before he frequently speaks about the founding fathers on his show. He also does not hesitate to critisize Bush era policies. And he was prediciting the economic collapse before it happened. But I guess his upstart as a comedian hurts his credibility? Funny that you admire Olbermans humor and prefer to wacth comedy central over real news shows. Olberman is without doubt more partisan than Beck or O'Reilly. He is also much less informative. And he got his start as a Sports Center anchor (speaking of credibilty). But I guess the sarcasm more than makes up for those flaws? I could argue against Olberman all day. He is a hack. Even MSNBC regretted giving him a real analysts position during the campaign and were forced to apologize for his behavoir. I would suggest, if nothing else, you find a new source of information, mate
#19
04-02-2009, 04:22 PM
lol... to call Beck newsworthy is a stretch... like this stuff he spouts - it's all so melodramatic, the miltary preparing for doomsday? an FBI agent in tears? he has a pow wow with some of the brightest military minds???
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvi..._for_doomsday/
It's all showmanship on Beck's part and childish at best and fearmongery at worst.
As for your second part. Let me say again - I have no problem with it. Is it fair??
Hell no - was it fair for those companies to take the risks they did with everyone's savings? Again, hell no. They played loose and easy with the rules and got burned. I can't say I have sympathy for them at the moment. Fairness in regards to their situation is something I find most Americans will have a hard time looking for.
But as for Beck and O'Reilly (imho, the wimp tool and the wimp bully) you can have them. It's all theatrics (as seen in that clip with the one female anchor crawling under the table???) pushing forth their beliefs.
What I found funniest in that clip was when Beck was told there was a point where he and President Obama agreed upon and he got all flustered and claimed that the President was doing it for political gain... and he's doing it for what? monetary gain??? lol...
They all have something to gain from it.
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvi..._for_doomsday/
It's all showmanship on Beck's part and childish at best and fearmongery at worst.
As for your second part. Let me say again - I have no problem with it. Is it fair??
Hell no - was it fair for those companies to take the risks they did with everyone's savings? Again, hell no. They played loose and easy with the rules and got burned. I can't say I have sympathy for them at the moment. Fairness in regards to their situation is something I find most Americans will have a hard time looking for.
But as for Beck and O'Reilly (imho, the wimp tool and the wimp bully) you can have them. It's all theatrics (as seen in that clip with the one female anchor crawling under the table???) pushing forth their beliefs.
What I found funniest in that clip was when Beck was told there was a point where he and President Obama agreed upon and he got all flustered and claimed that the President was doing it for political gain... and he's doing it for what? monetary gain??? lol...
They all have something to gain from it.
#20
04-02-2009, 07:50 PM
The video is from Fox and Friends in the morning. The woman is an idiot. I prefer Morning Joe on MSNBC becasue it is more informative. However, I do believe that the military prepares for worst case scenarios, no? An FBI agent remembering 9/11 and breaking down in tears, seems reasonable, no? Beck is fairly straight talking. And he has said repeatedly that his children and thier future is what motivates him. If you look at it from that perspective then his anxiety is understandable.
Funny though that you should use that 5 minute clip to characterize Beck. Check out the values and principles that he talks about everyday. I bet you will find little to critisize. Check out the 9/12 project. I havnt personally looked into it, but I imagine that you will agree with the concept.
And since I have defended Beck repeatedly now, I ask you Palindari to defend Mr. Olberman. What does he stand for? what makes him worth listening to?
As for O'Reilly, he is wildly succesful. His methods are often controversial. But I dont have to agree with him or his methods. I watch him occasionally and the show often makes me think. It is the ideas that interest me more than the man. One thing I respect about O'Reilly is his commitment to hold the courts (judges and lawyers) responsible. He once broke a story on a judge who let a serial child molestor walk the streets which led to another incident. His people confronted the judge and exposed him as a coward. Most people can respect that.
If you want to side with the AG of CT on the bonus issue, then you are free to do so. I will side with the constitution. It is common for feelings and emotion to overpower the burden of ones duty. A simplistic analogy - two men commit separate but similar murders. One of the men is a friendly and gregarious fellow. The other man is grumpy and unpopular. No one has sympathy for the grumpy man. Should they be judged equally in a court of law?
Funny though that you should use that 5 minute clip to characterize Beck. Check out the values and principles that he talks about everyday. I bet you will find little to critisize. Check out the 9/12 project. I havnt personally looked into it, but I imagine that you will agree with the concept.
And since I have defended Beck repeatedly now, I ask you Palindari to defend Mr. Olberman. What does he stand for? what makes him worth listening to?
As for O'Reilly, he is wildly succesful. His methods are often controversial. But I dont have to agree with him or his methods. I watch him occasionally and the show often makes me think. It is the ideas that interest me more than the man. One thing I respect about O'Reilly is his commitment to hold the courts (judges and lawyers) responsible. He once broke a story on a judge who let a serial child molestor walk the streets which led to another incident. His people confronted the judge and exposed him as a coward. Most people can respect that.
If you want to side with the AG of CT on the bonus issue, then you are free to do so. I will side with the constitution. It is common for feelings and emotion to overpower the burden of ones duty. A simplistic analogy - two men commit separate but similar murders. One of the men is a friendly and gregarious fellow. The other man is grumpy and unpopular. No one has sympathy for the grumpy man. Should they be judged equally in a court of law?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post