^ Alright. If Canadian medicine is so effing great then why do they come over here is droves for treatment? And don't play like you don't know Canadians come to the US all the time for treatment.

Edit: I'm willing to turn into Jazzy if I have to. I don't work tonight and I'm all caught up with my classes. In fact, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more involved (if at all) in this thread.

 

I've already cited that I am aware that Canadians will go to the US for certain treatments. I wouldn't say in droves, but yes, it happens. Occasionally they can find shorter wait lists south of the border and often they are going to USA for a procedure that's not available yet in Canada. Now, as you're probably salivating with my last sentence, hardly able to contain yourself... let me explain that Canada has 1/10th the population of USA. If USA had identical healthcare coverage as Canadians, I am sure you'd still have better and more advanced services than we do. With an operating budget that'd be at least 10 times as big, there would be a proportional increase in spending on research and new equipment.

So yeah. You're fearing something you don't even understand. I suppose that's usually the way, though.

 

From everything Ive read online which states just the pure facts of what the bill says I don't see why so many people have such a huge problem with it. Everybody is speculating about things that may or may not happen, which I think is ridiculous. If I'm correct I believe we (the United States) are the only industrialized country that does not have a national health care plan. Isn't that odd? The worlds "superpower" is the only country with out it. I have to completely agree with headshok on this one.

 

Like I said, I fully admit that I am ignorant regarding the facts of the US healthcare bill... so while I am not endorsing it per se, I am confidently saying that the US is lagging behind other industrial nations with its current healthcare system. Without even thinking about it, I am sure that the vast majority of people would prefer the CDN system to that of the US. We don't hang people out to dry because of forces beyond their control.
Am I saying our system is perfect? No. I sometimes stop and think about the taxpayer money that is paying to treat lung cancer victims who smoked their whole lives... or treat trauma victims that crashed their cars drunk out of their minds... but the fact is, I wouldn't trade it for the US system. Nor would anybody I've ever met in Canada.

 

The more the government is shoving things down our throats, the more worse off we will be. I am not taking away from Canada's system because the fact of the matter is that people's lives are being saved because of their healthcare system. Ours is most certainly doing the same. Our technology is advancing so far and fast, new treatments are being discovered, and it's only getting better. Pardon me, though, for being happy that I am getting some of the most modern medicine this world currently has to offer...medicine with the highest standards. There are many times where for example, my percocet is the same as the percocet canadians receive. The difference is that I bought my percocet for me with my money...the canadian system takes taxes out and pays for everyone's percocet. I have a family to take care of, children to cloth, feed, and keep healthy. Why should I pay for someone else's family or anyone else's family to be healthy..that's your own personal responsability. I work damn hard for my money and I want to keep as much of it in my control as I can. If I can do it (work hard) other's can do it as well, maybe even better. In America, there is no guarentee that you will become rich and famous, but the oportunities are certainly there. If you aren't happy with the benfits you recieve for flipping burgers, then get a new job. This whole "I deserve this" and "it's not fair" attitude it killing some of our most important core prinicples of hard work and pride. I served in the Army for 5 years. I did two tours in Iraq and got hit with a roadside bomb. Do you think I "deserve" healthcare? Didn't I work hard for it and serve my country faithfully, defending this nation from all enemies both foreign and domestic? I don't "deserve" healthcare because of that. I did a good thing, sure, but so do so many others. I continue to work hard and be a productive member of society, and my reward is my independence.
I find it funny that the President, Nanci Pelosi, Joe Biden, and so many members of Congress are exempt from this form of socialized medicine...interesting how its good for us, but not good for them...this is not a GOD DAMN socialist country. People who want the government to run our lives need to understand that this is a free country and if they don't like the freedom we sustain here, they have the freedom to leave. I love my country. I love that I am free. I love working hard for what I have. When I have no money, I don't go around asking people for it. I find a way through hard work to get more. No one said it was going to be easy or fair.

Wow, I went on a hell of a rant...well its typed now. All I'm saying is that the less government involvement in our personal life, the better we, as country, will be!

 

^^^^^^

yeah, exactly what that guy said!

 

Well, I'm getting that you work hard and want to earn your feelings of entitlement... but that's not what this is about.
Healthcare is something that everybody will need at some point in time. You can't predict it. Working hard doesn't guarantee that you'll be okay if you're hit with an illness that can cost 300+ thousand dollars to treat. There are plenty of procedures in USA that cost over a quarter of a million dollars and would devastate most people financially. So all your hard work goes out the window because of what? Bad luck?
Now say you've got the perfect HMO and it covers your 1/4 mil expenses... super. But what about your brother/sister/mother/father? Maybe they don't have as good of coverage as you do, and say they get the same diagnosis. What then? You mortgage your own house to pay to help them out?

OR

In the Canadian system... the gov't picks up the tab (which is probably 1/5th of what it'd be in the US). Because we all share the costs, the costs go DOWN. The CDN gov't has some level of control with the costs of medical procedures, and we save a bundle on paperwork. Doctors still make very comfortable livings up here, too.

Another point is that our healthcare system doesn't cover prescription drugs. Kind of weird, I know. But I suppose that's a misconception. Your percocet example is moot.

There are plenty of reasons to embrace a more universal healthcare system... I always wonder about what it'd be like to live in USA. I am an educated individual and will certainly find work that would have great healthcare benefits if I were to work in the USA. That being said, what happens if I were to fall ill right now? Or if I were in between jobs and had a lapse in coverage? Or switched jobs and the new coverage wouldn't handle a pre-existing problem?
This could happen to anybody or anybody you care about... I don't see why you'd want to live in a world like that just so you can say in your head that "this country is a free for all and I'm gonna fight my way as far up towards the top as I can--and deserve everything I get when I get there! Hoo-ra!"

It's crazy.

 

You know what? Thats BS... You cannot use what a doctor would like to charge and say thats what it is... I went through several back surgeries following an accident. the doctors 'bills' came out to over $300,000. Know what it actually cost? $58,000... Thats what the insurances paid as 'reasonable and customary'. Know what I paid after the settlement? $5000.

Thats the biggest lie about healthcare... What the 'bill' says is not what they get paid... ever.

 

Okay, well, regardless... the added cost of paperwork and liaisons between insurance co's and hospitals adds up to a horrendous amount of money every year. And, while the insurance company might often successfully whittle the price down, I am sure they still end up paying more than what the Canadian gov't would pay for the same procedures.
There's no fighting over prices or guessing at what stuff should cost... it is stated very simply. If you go see a family doc here in Canada for a normal visit (mild illness, leave with a script) he's going to bill the gov't between 20-30 bucks. I wonder how much it costs an insurance company in USA to pay for a client to visit a doc. I am thinking there's no way it's that cheap.

 

From what I've seen? General Practitioner 'charges' ~$125, he gets ~$48. Just from my bills, and I have government insurance - VA.