Apparently the cam lock tool is unnecessary...
#1
09-28-2008, 12:22 AM
Apparently the cam lock tool is unnecessary...
...so we did a timing belt job on a 30v Passat tip last night, and I'll be honest, it was the easiest timing belt job I've ever done. What we found was that the cam lock tool is totally unnecessary. Our friend Bill (Passat owner) ordered his parts from ECS and elected not to get the cam tool, and we figured that if need be, we could build one that would work fine, for far less than the $130-170 that is being advertised on the various sites.
Once we had everything taken apart, and were at the point of removing the belt, we used a white grease pencil to mark each exhaust cam sprocket's position relative to its timing backplate, as well as the crank sprocket's position relative to the housing behind it. When we pulled the belt...absolutely not a micrometer of movement on anything. We set cylinder 3 for TDC on the compression stroke, and as it turns out, this aligns the cams so that none of the lobes are in a position to make the cams unstable and likely to spin.
The whole job was overall a cakewalk - I think the wheel bearing swaps are twice to three times the pain in the *** of this job. If you have decent tools and some wrench time under your belt, do not fear the timing service. And the car runs like a champ - no instability of idle, no wobble on any pulleys, and no unwanted noises, vibrations, or anything else other than a very-well-running B5.
Anyhow, the point of this post was a public service announcement of sorts so that maybe someone else out there won't be scared into buying a very expensive, wholly unnecessary tool such as the cam lock bar. Hope it saves someone out there some money.
Once we had everything taken apart, and were at the point of removing the belt, we used a white grease pencil to mark each exhaust cam sprocket's position relative to its timing backplate, as well as the crank sprocket's position relative to the housing behind it. When we pulled the belt...absolutely not a micrometer of movement on anything. We set cylinder 3 for TDC on the compression stroke, and as it turns out, this aligns the cams so that none of the lobes are in a position to make the cams unstable and likely to spin.
The whole job was overall a cakewalk - I think the wheel bearing swaps are twice to three times the pain in the *** of this job. If you have decent tools and some wrench time under your belt, do not fear the timing service. And the car runs like a champ - no instability of idle, no wobble on any pulleys, and no unwanted noises, vibrations, or anything else other than a very-well-running B5.
Anyhow, the point of this post was a public service announcement of sorts so that maybe someone else out there won't be scared into buying a very expensive, wholly unnecessary tool such as the cam lock bar. Hope it saves someone out there some money.
#2
09-28-2008, 03:21 AM
...so we did a timing belt job on a 30v Passat tip last night, and I'll be honest, it was the easiest timing belt job I've ever done. What we found was that the cam lock tool is totally unnecessary. Our friend Bill (Passat owner) ordered his parts from ECS and elected not to get the cam tool, and we figured that if need be, we could build one that would work fine, for far less than the $130-170 that is being advertised on the various sites.
Once we had everything taken apart, and were at the point of removing the belt, we used a white grease pencil to mark each exhaust cam sprocket's position relative to its timing backplate, as well as the crank sprocket's position relative to the housing behind it. When we pulled the belt...absolutely not a micrometer of movement on anything. We set cylinder 3 for TDC on the compression stroke, and as it turns out, this aligns the cams so that none of the lobes are in a position to make the cams unstable and likely to spin.
The whole job was overall a cakewalk - I think the wheel bearing swaps are twice to three times the pain in the *** of this job. If you have decent tools and some wrench time under your belt, do not fear the timing service. And the car runs like a champ - no instability of idle, no wobble on any pulleys, and no unwanted noises, vibrations, or anything else other than a very-well-running B5.
Anyhow, the point of this post was a public service announcement of sorts so that maybe someone else out there won't be scared into buying a very expensive, wholly unnecessary tool such as the cam lock bar. Hope it saves someone out there some money.
Once we had everything taken apart, and were at the point of removing the belt, we used a white grease pencil to mark each exhaust cam sprocket's position relative to its timing backplate, as well as the crank sprocket's position relative to the housing behind it. When we pulled the belt...absolutely not a micrometer of movement on anything. We set cylinder 3 for TDC on the compression stroke, and as it turns out, this aligns the cams so that none of the lobes are in a position to make the cams unstable and likely to spin.
The whole job was overall a cakewalk - I think the wheel bearing swaps are twice to three times the pain in the *** of this job. If you have decent tools and some wrench time under your belt, do not fear the timing service. And the car runs like a champ - no instability of idle, no wobble on any pulleys, and no unwanted noises, vibrations, or anything else other than a very-well-running B5.
Anyhow, the point of this post was a public service announcement of sorts so that maybe someone else out there won't be scared into buying a very expensive, wholly unnecessary tool such as the cam lock bar. Hope it saves someone out there some money.
http://forums.audiworld.com/a6100/msgs/93670.phtml
#3
09-28-2008, 04:23 AM
Wow...that sucks !!! Little note of advise to everyone, a camera is your best friend when taking stuff apart. When in doubt, look at the pic before you put it back together.
#4
09-28-2008, 11:00 AM
It does look like he had quite a problem, but that's also an older car with a 12v V6, not the 30v that we worked on - I made no statement about the 12v as I don't know whether it'll spin or not. In the link you gave, the guy said that the must've missed a tooth putting on the belt. With or without the cam lock, you can miss a tooth - you have to install the belt the "right" way so that you don't miss one. He replaced his tensioner - even with the cam lock tool on, if you detension the belt, it'll go slack and can easily be reinstalled a tooth off, regardless of whether the cams are locked or not.
He needed to put the belt on the "proper" way to keep the tooth count alignment right. Install the tensioner pulley and then wrap the belt around the crank sprocket and up to and around the driver's side cam. Detension the tensioner roller and then wrap the belt around it and the passenger cam, keeping tension on the belt at the driver's cam as you go from one cam sprocket to the other, and you won't miss a tooth. It took a little experimentation to figure this out to be the easiest way to keep it from skipping a tooth, but during the entire time we were doing this, including the rest of the time the t-belt was off as well, there was not the slightest movement of the cams or crank. I stand by what I was posting - for the 30v, the cam tool is NOT needed to keep the cams from moving. I have no idea about the 12v and whether it'll spin the cams or not, but I was posting about a job on the 30v and the engine does not move when the belt comes off.
If you're a klutz or tend to bang around into things and move them on your own (like maybe the cam sprockets), or feel like wasting the money, then sure, get the tool, but the cams won't spin on their own if you've set the motor to TDC on the compression stroke at cylinder #3 as recommended in the manual.
He needed to put the belt on the "proper" way to keep the tooth count alignment right. Install the tensioner pulley and then wrap the belt around the crank sprocket and up to and around the driver's side cam. Detension the tensioner roller and then wrap the belt around it and the passenger cam, keeping tension on the belt at the driver's cam as you go from one cam sprocket to the other, and you won't miss a tooth. It took a little experimentation to figure this out to be the easiest way to keep it from skipping a tooth, but during the entire time we were doing this, including the rest of the time the t-belt was off as well, there was not the slightest movement of the cams or crank. I stand by what I was posting - for the 30v, the cam tool is NOT needed to keep the cams from moving. I have no idea about the 12v and whether it'll spin the cams or not, but I was posting about a job on the 30v and the engine does not move when the belt comes off.
If you're a klutz or tend to bang around into things and move them on your own (like maybe the cam sprockets), or feel like wasting the money, then sure, get the tool, but the cams won't spin on their own if you've set the motor to TDC on the compression stroke at cylinder #3 as recommended in the manual.
Last edited by ImTheDevil; 09-28-2008 at 11:07 AM.
#5
09-28-2008, 11:46 AM
The tool is unnecessary if you know the basics of what the timing belt is doing and know how to keep it in time. Assuming you already have it in time when you go to take the old one off then you just need to mark it well and make sure all the marks are int he exact same or as close as the new belt allows to the point where it was before. It is not uncommon to be half a mark away from where you were because of the new belt being a tad shorter and not stretched out from age. My dad shop does more timing belts on Audi's then they do anything else on the Audi's lol and they still don't have the tool. Also the tech is good enough at them he can have one done in 4 hours or less... I wish I could do that. Then again I avoid power tools because I am scared of broken bolts. He knows his tools well enough and that helps I guess.
#6
09-28-2008, 11:58 AM
This was our first 30v timing belt, and we had it completed in about 7 hours (with a dinner break and some breaks here and there). I am completely confident that, now that we know the little tips and tricks of disassembly and reassembly, we could knock the next one out in between 5 and 6 hours. I used to spend about 13 hours doing the timing belt jobs on 300ZXs, even with the familiarity of doing over a dozen of them. Service position on our cars is a wonderful idea lol - way better than working inside the crossmembers, trying to install and align everything
#7
09-28-2008, 07:28 PM
My buddy did a Passat 2.8 30V without the tool this summer. I advised him he'd probably need it, but he's not one to buy a specialty tool that he'd only use once.
So that's 2 30V timing jobs done, no timing tools required. (And this was done by a Saab dude
).
So that's 2 30V timing jobs done, no timing tools required. (And this was done by a Saab dude
).
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