View Poll Results: Obama or McCain?
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58
56.86%
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44
43.14%
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#41
09-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Headshock,
You're Canadian, so you already pay a good 20% more in taxes than US taxpayers do. I know guys that work up at UTRC in Canada, and they aren't too psyched about how much taxes get taken out their pay now. Also, my cousin owns land with a cabin on a lake near St Come, and the Canadian government is trying (and probably will succeed) to take his land claiming "Eminent Domain", and want him to take $60K for the lakefront land, worth much more than that. They have no "reason" as far a he can tell. It's in the middle of nowhere (I was there maybe 10 yrs ago). But they'll probably get away with it. Hey it's not quite the country the USA currently is, no matter how good you think your health care is.
You're Canadian, so you already pay a good 20% more in taxes than US taxpayers do. I know guys that work up at UTRC in Canada, and they aren't too psyched about how much taxes get taken out their pay now. Also, my cousin owns land with a cabin on a lake near St Come, and the Canadian government is trying (and probably will succeed) to take his land claiming "Eminent Domain", and want him to take $60K for the lakefront land, worth much more than that. They have no "reason" as far a he can tell. It's in the middle of nowhere (I was there maybe 10 yrs ago). But they'll probably get away with it. Hey it's not quite the country the USA currently is, no matter how good you think your health care is.
#42
09-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Move to the hills? Socialized health care out for profit?
You guys are ... Umm... not really putting up a good argument.
If I have to pay for a few people who want to mooch, then by all means, I'll do it... because I know that overall, the standard of health care (and living, as health = quality of life in MANY ways) will improve greatly for the MAJORITY of people.
You talk about how you work hard for your money, so don't want to pay for moochers? Well guess what, you're middle class dude. You'd get bent over hard if a big medical expense came your way, and your HMO didn't cover it. Then what? You'll die (or watch a family member/friend die) because nobody has the 250k for some experimental treatment?
The fact of the matter is, socialized health care works. It's not perfect, but it is SO much better than your current system that it's no contest.
And it's not profit driven. Jesus, are you that stupid? Obviously they aren't in the business of throwing money away, but that doesn't mean they are out to profit. They cut costs where they can... the thing is, the same treatment that somebody off the street in USA has to pay 50k for in your land of the free, the CDN government will pay 8 grand to have performed. They control costs. Doctors are happy, people are even happier. I'd sooner have the money available to help others than have it fill some American hospital INVESTOR's pockets.
Seriously, your grand kids would be embarrassed if they were to one day read this. "My grand-dad was a narrow minded fool." Something to that effect.
But yeah, God bless USA or whatever. Rock on.
You guys are ... Umm... not really putting up a good argument.
If I have to pay for a few people who want to mooch, then by all means, I'll do it... because I know that overall, the standard of health care (and living, as health = quality of life in MANY ways) will improve greatly for the MAJORITY of people.
You talk about how you work hard for your money, so don't want to pay for moochers? Well guess what, you're middle class dude. You'd get bent over hard if a big medical expense came your way, and your HMO didn't cover it. Then what? You'll die (or watch a family member/friend die) because nobody has the 250k for some experimental treatment?
The fact of the matter is, socialized health care works. It's not perfect, but it is SO much better than your current system that it's no contest.
And it's not profit driven. Jesus, are you that stupid? Obviously they aren't in the business of throwing money away, but that doesn't mean they are out to profit. They cut costs where they can... the thing is, the same treatment that somebody off the street in USA has to pay 50k for in your land of the free, the CDN government will pay 8 grand to have performed. They control costs. Doctors are happy, people are even happier. I'd sooner have the money available to help others than have it fill some American hospital INVESTOR's pockets.
Seriously, your grand kids would be embarrassed if they were to one day read this. "My grand-dad was a narrow minded fool." Something to that effect.
But yeah, God bless USA or whatever. Rock on.
Move to the hills......I was making a very valid point on not wanting to pay for someone elses healthcare !!! I live in Cali, I see all the homeless, which most of them want to be lazy and mooch off of others, grant it some do have mental illness, but alot dont. Theres also a **** load of people on welfare.....lazy F**ks that dont want to work for anything that sit on welfare and apply for HUD. All of them could get jobs but don't want to because their lazy !!! Oh ya and all the Illegals here in SoCal, I guess we are going to have to pay for their health care too......hmmmmmm "F" that !!!
To tell you the truth.....Feb. 14th 2007, I was at work and had a brain anurism.....yes an artery ruptured in my head !!! I was rushed to the first hospital where they told me I had food poisoning, returned home, woke up later that night after the morphine wore off and felt like my head was in a vise. Went to a different hospital, they rushed me to UCS for surgery.......needless to say I now have 2 helicoils in my brain and the bill was well over 100 thousand which my HMO paid for 100%......I had a 100 dollar co-pay. So dont give me that HMO wont pay for **** BS !!!
#43
09-12-2008, 12:17 PM
lol... to quote Reagan - there you go again
Just for a moment lets cut the extremist views for a moment.
First off - no one - and this is important to know - no one pays half their paychecks to the government. Unless you're way behind in your child support payments then you are literally screwed, blued and tatooed, my friend.
Second - comparing socialized medicine to Socialism is like comparing an Audi to a VW. They may have similarities but they are definately different.
Third - fortunately we live in a free capitalist nation - hoo-RAH! but there are somethings - like healthcare that should not be in the capitalist market. Yes, profit margins can be made - but some of these companies are posting profits that are outlandish.
How can a person dying of cancer - or need a seriously extensive operation going to afford the procedures to a better life? If you are lucky and are employed by a company that offers healthcare then wonderful. But check the fine print, mate, there is alot they don't cover.
Socialized medicine works great - almost most of Europe, Canada, Japan and other industrialized nations do it. Not here. Too much profit to be made.
One of my personal dilemma's is how can a company profit from another's pain?
I can see if you wanted bigger breasts or a tummy tuck - pay whatever you can afford. But reconstructive surgery for a 10 yr old girl that got burned nearly 70% of her body because she was raped and tortured - her family's poor and they need to ask, beg for assistance she can have a normal life.
Yes, that is extreme - but lets downgrade - let's say you just lost your job and about to lose your house while you're out looking you get into an accident. Or God forbid, your loved one gets stricken and you don't have insurance, because the company you work for doesn't offer it (btw - the company I work for doesn't and I pay $425 a month for my family and it barely covers sheet - we're looking for better - don't use Etna). So what do you do then?
Hate to break the news - but people already mooch off the system. A hospital, and correct me if I'm wrong here, cannot refuse urgent care even if you don't have insurance. So how many homeless or lower class come in for treatment and they lose money that would be subsidized by the government?
Sorry guys, the old scare tactics are not viable. How can other countries afford it and we cannot?
Honestly my *** bleeds for the CEO's if they don't make 2 million a year. Check it out http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-...cks-big-pharma
Add those all together and that could pay for healthcare for every child in the US I bet...
And that's just the CEO's - you also have CIO's, Presidents, VP's and so on and so on...
I'm truly sorry if they make a third as much under socialized healthcare. I honestly am.
Just for a moment lets cut the extremist views for a moment.
First off - no one - and this is important to know - no one pays half their paychecks to the government. Unless you're way behind in your child support payments then you are literally screwed, blued and tatooed, my friend.
Second - comparing socialized medicine to Socialism is like comparing an Audi to a VW. They may have similarities but they are definately different.
Third - fortunately we live in a free capitalist nation - hoo-RAH! but there are somethings - like healthcare that should not be in the capitalist market. Yes, profit margins can be made - but some of these companies are posting profits that are outlandish.
How can a person dying of cancer - or need a seriously extensive operation going to afford the procedures to a better life? If you are lucky and are employed by a company that offers healthcare then wonderful. But check the fine print, mate, there is alot they don't cover.
Socialized medicine works great - almost most of Europe, Canada, Japan and other industrialized nations do it. Not here. Too much profit to be made.
One of my personal dilemma's is how can a company profit from another's pain?
I can see if you wanted bigger breasts or a tummy tuck - pay whatever you can afford. But reconstructive surgery for a 10 yr old girl that got burned nearly 70% of her body because she was raped and tortured - her family's poor and they need to ask, beg for assistance she can have a normal life.
Yes, that is extreme - but lets downgrade - let's say you just lost your job and about to lose your house while you're out looking you get into an accident. Or God forbid, your loved one gets stricken and you don't have insurance, because the company you work for doesn't offer it (btw - the company I work for doesn't and I pay $425 a month for my family and it barely covers sheet - we're looking for better - don't use Etna). So what do you do then?
Hate to break the news - but people already mooch off the system. A hospital, and correct me if I'm wrong here, cannot refuse urgent care even if you don't have insurance. So how many homeless or lower class come in for treatment and they lose money that would be subsidized by the government?
Sorry guys, the old scare tactics are not viable. How can other countries afford it and we cannot?
Honestly my *** bleeds for the CEO's if they don't make 2 million a year. Check it out http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-...cks-big-pharma
Add those all together and that could pay for healthcare for every child in the US I bet...
And that's just the CEO's - you also have CIO's, Presidents, VP's and so on and so on...
I'm truly sorry if they make a third as much under socialized healthcare. I honestly am.
#44
09-13-2008, 12:21 AM
If I remember corectly thats why they passed that cigarette tax back in the 90's.......to pay for urgent care for the homeless and for the poor who couldn't afford the tab !!!
My wife has this little old English lady that works for her.This lady used to live in Canada and ended up moving to the U.S. because Socialized heathcare sucks, and why she was living in Canada she also payed for private insurance and she would come to the states for check ups and surgery when she needed it. It turns out if we had soscialized healthcare I would most likely be dead right now. See I needed multiple cat scans and MRI's when I had my anurism. Which I would have needed aproval for if we had socailized healthcare. My chances for survival for open brain surgey would have been cut from 90% to less that 70% due to the fact the surgons would have had to crack my skull open to repair my torn artery instead of the more expensive precidure they did, which is called an angiogram.....Its where they go through my vein in my leg, up through my chest and heart, up my neck, and into my brain without opening my skull !!! Do you think the government would have allowed an angiogram in my case....I think not !!! The last thing we need is to show up at a hospital and feel like its the DMV.......Heres your #, take a seat and we'll call you in 3 hours. Then when Uget to the window.....sorry I'm on lunch come back tommorrow.
My wife has this little old English lady that works for her.This lady used to live in Canada and ended up moving to the U.S. because Socialized heathcare sucks, and why she was living in Canada she also payed for private insurance and she would come to the states for check ups and surgery when she needed it. It turns out if we had soscialized healthcare I would most likely be dead right now. See I needed multiple cat scans and MRI's when I had my anurism. Which I would have needed aproval for if we had socailized healthcare. My chances for survival for open brain surgey would have been cut from 90% to less that 70% due to the fact the surgons would have had to crack my skull open to repair my torn artery instead of the more expensive precidure they did, which is called an angiogram.....Its where they go through my vein in my leg, up through my chest and heart, up my neck, and into my brain without opening my skull !!! Do you think the government would have allowed an angiogram in my case....I think not !!! The last thing we need is to show up at a hospital and feel like its the DMV.......Heres your #, take a seat and we'll call you in 3 hours. Then when Uget to the window.....sorry I'm on lunch come back tommorrow.
#45
09-13-2008, 02:09 AM
Umm, angiograms are done ALL THE FECKING TIME up here in our old fashioned socialized health care system. You know why? Because it's not that bloody expensive! What our gov't pays to have that angiogram done up here is FAR less than your business-like hospital charged to have it done in USA. So yeah, you're argument is pretty weak... I especially liked your made up percentages though regarding your chances of survival. I honestly have no idea why anybody would go to USA for a checkup.... I will agree that some minor surgeries can be had much quicker in USA, but yeah, you're paying for it. Life threatening surgeries are prioritized and will happen as soon as they need to happen.
Honestly, arguing against socialized healthcare is extremely selfish... and it's very short sighted, too. It's been brought up that if you were suddenly without a job, what would you do if you needed urgent healthcare? You don't have an HMO, the insurance you can afford is crap, and you're faced with a situation that requires 100k medical care that isn't covered by anything. Still against socialized healthcare?
If you are, let's keep going. Maybe this situation doesn't ever happen to you... but statistically speaking, it'll probably happen to somebody you know. I feel good knowing that everybody I know in my country is protected under this umbrella.
And yeah, you're taxes go up... but other costs go down. You're no longer paying out of pocket for health insurance. Or, conversely, if you have an HMO that your employer pays for... your employer will no longer have to incur that cost. Guess what? Wages can increase. All that saved money has to go somewhere. And yes, there is a lot of money saved... because each individual medical procedure performed costs FAR less, as it's not run like a business. Honestly, with the American markup on medical costs... it's not hard to understand how socialized healthcare works so well.
And you're fear of paying for the homeless isn't really warranted... it's not you paying for the homeless, it's the guys making 7 figures. You're middle class, let me remind you... you're pretty much paying for what you use. So don't preach about how hard you worked for it... it makes you sound extremely self-centred when you rant about how hard you work, but will seconds later write off an entire population (homeless), many of which might not BE homeless if they had better healthcare. You think homeless people want to be homeless? Would that change if they had healthcare paid for? No.
And illegal immigrants wouldn't be in heaven if socialized healthcare were brought in. You do need a health card, as every hospital scans it when you go in for care. They then bill the government for the services performed... at agreed upon rates per procedure (these are the rates that are fractions of what USA rates are).
So yeah... as middle class people, I wonder how you are so adamant in refusing the idea of this healthcare model. It's obvious you don't fully understand it... but I think it's easy enough to grasp the gist. It works, it's cheaper (unless you make obscene amounts of money), and it protects EVERYBODY. I don't feel good about leaving under privileged people out to die, and neither should you. Yes, some people are lazy etc... but I won't group truly disadvantaged people in with the lazy and shun them all. That's not right... it's not even human.
Honestly, arguing against socialized healthcare is extremely selfish... and it's very short sighted, too. It's been brought up that if you were suddenly without a job, what would you do if you needed urgent healthcare? You don't have an HMO, the insurance you can afford is crap, and you're faced with a situation that requires 100k medical care that isn't covered by anything. Still against socialized healthcare?
If you are, let's keep going. Maybe this situation doesn't ever happen to you... but statistically speaking, it'll probably happen to somebody you know. I feel good knowing that everybody I know in my country is protected under this umbrella.
And yeah, you're taxes go up... but other costs go down. You're no longer paying out of pocket for health insurance. Or, conversely, if you have an HMO that your employer pays for... your employer will no longer have to incur that cost. Guess what? Wages can increase. All that saved money has to go somewhere. And yes, there is a lot of money saved... because each individual medical procedure performed costs FAR less, as it's not run like a business. Honestly, with the American markup on medical costs... it's not hard to understand how socialized healthcare works so well.
And you're fear of paying for the homeless isn't really warranted... it's not you paying for the homeless, it's the guys making 7 figures. You're middle class, let me remind you... you're pretty much paying for what you use. So don't preach about how hard you worked for it... it makes you sound extremely self-centred when you rant about how hard you work, but will seconds later write off an entire population (homeless), many of which might not BE homeless if they had better healthcare. You think homeless people want to be homeless? Would that change if they had healthcare paid for? No.
And illegal immigrants wouldn't be in heaven if socialized healthcare were brought in. You do need a health card, as every hospital scans it when you go in for care. They then bill the government for the services performed... at agreed upon rates per procedure (these are the rates that are fractions of what USA rates are).
So yeah... as middle class people, I wonder how you are so adamant in refusing the idea of this healthcare model. It's obvious you don't fully understand it... but I think it's easy enough to grasp the gist. It works, it's cheaper (unless you make obscene amounts of money), and it protects EVERYBODY. I don't feel good about leaving under privileged people out to die, and neither should you. Yes, some people are lazy etc... but I won't group truly disadvantaged people in with the lazy and shun them all. That's not right... it's not even human.
#46
09-13-2008, 11:21 AM
The homeless could get help if they wanted it......theres alot of programs & shelters here to get them back on their feet.....if they wanted to, so ya thats another weak comeback on your part too !!!
I'll Preach about how hard I work every time buddy !!! I paid my way through College myself.....18,000 a semester so ya I worked hard to get where I am and for what I got. Also everyones taxes will go up !!! The wools now pulled over my eyes that easy !!!
Last edited by GHETTOxWHITExBOY; 09-13-2008 at 11:26 AM.
#47
09-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Next time do a little reading before you reply......
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...ocialized.html
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...ocialized.html
#48
09-13-2008, 03:48 PM
Aye carumbah, Ghetto - that's some truly funny sheet! lol
Let's start with the talking points in Introduction...lol...
1) Reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available.
Patients in the U.S. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. Care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as Tylenol.
ROFL.... that's too funny to even go down the path of a "reasonable" argument!
OK, Ghetto - I'm serious now. Let's take your anuerism. Did you shop at other hospitals for the best bargain before you actually stopped for help??? Check for coupons on angiograms before you went to USC???
Not no, but HELL no! Dude, you went to some of the best docs on the west coast. When your life's on the line are you going to become a bargain hunter??? That point is so ridiculous that it amazes me that they even typed it to share to the people.... lol
As for getting "free" Tylenol. That abuse by the doctors for perscribing it. Especially OTC meds.
2) Reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.
With no incentive to provide quality care, physicians and nurses leave the government-monopolized area for better opportunities in a freer country. Shortages result. Drug companies are hindered by price controls and regulations and soon cease research and development of new medication. In the U.S., start-up drug companies cannot afford to run the FDA gauntlet, so the market is dominated by a few established corporations.
LOL... This just gets better! If that were the case, mate, then everyone in Canada would be deadmeat why? because all their doctors left!!!! LOL - and you can add Japan, German, England, etc... But they seem to be doing fine. All hospitals have excellent to poor doctors on their staffs. You should know this to be the case. During your incident, I'm sure you knew which were doing their best. And we're in a capitalist market health care system....
Some of the best doctors are the GP (General Practicitioner) out in the rural areas. They became doctors for all the right reasons - to be the best in their profession and offer a vital service to their community - check out Doctors Without Borders.
Drug companies make BANK if they nail a vaccine!! Think that's enough incentive for them to do research and development??? Hell YES!
Just another asinine point.
3) Steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.
Yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. However, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - All "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people.
Currently I pay $430 a month for healthcare for my family of 4. That's $5160 a year!!! That's nearly a months salary for me! And yet we have co-pays and coverage doesn't cover alot. So what's my point - besides needing to find a better setup than Etna?
Everyone pays already. Do you think your HMO is free? Hell no. You're employer - in accordance to CA state law dictates they either cover 50% or all of the monthly costs. Little companies - like ours with less than 50 employees - cannot get a decent discount to make it viable for us to offer - I know I looked. Large corps get all the breaks in mass healthcare. So everyone else pays.
But lets say its universal. The money they would normally pay you might actually come to you - or it may be a wash considering any tax increase that may be necessary - who knows?
4) The quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.
As the poor and middle-class wait in agony for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.
LOL... What a load of scare tactics bullsheet! Again if this were true, all those nations I've mentioned would be losing population in droves!
5) Destroys your privacy.
Suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. If you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, I have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars. Your neighbors might support government bans on smoking, "unsafe" sex or other "risky" behaviors to reduce costs. Politicians will use the federal bureaucracy to force you and your family to comply with programs such as the "New Freedom Commission on Mental Health".
WTF??? This point is beyond stupid. So what if you drive without a helmet - you're an idiot that if you wreck and crack open you nugget then so be it. What interest is it to me? Liek I said WTF?? LOL
As for privacy... Currently right now medical records are shared to ensure that you won't be misdiagnosed or mis-medicated!!! GE is working a system that no matter where you are in the US and abroad - your medical records can become accessible at a moments notice - keying up highlights of your health.
That argument is moot! lol...
6) Destroys your liberty.
When you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money - and this will not be you, your friends or your family. The power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.
This was truly the FUNNIEST.
I'm old enough to remember that argument when they were passing laws to make insurance manditory! Still to this day I see peeps get bent over because they get hit by uninsured motorist and all they have is PL/PD.
Universal healthcare would be no more liberty reducer than getting your driver's license. Why is it that whenever the government steps up to provide service - peeps squeel before hand.
Think all those people in Texas are wondering how they are going to rebuild?? lol... it isn't the insurance companies. It will be ol'Uncle Sam with the fathomless pockets.
Got more to offer you in rebuttal - but the wife's giving me the stink eye
Let's start with the talking points in Introduction...lol...
1) Reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available.
Patients in the U.S. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. Care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as Tylenol.
ROFL.... that's too funny to even go down the path of a "reasonable" argument!
OK, Ghetto - I'm serious now. Let's take your anuerism. Did you shop at other hospitals for the best bargain before you actually stopped for help??? Check for coupons on angiograms before you went to USC???
Not no, but HELL no! Dude, you went to some of the best docs on the west coast. When your life's on the line are you going to become a bargain hunter??? That point is so ridiculous that it amazes me that they even typed it to share to the people.... lol
As for getting "free" Tylenol. That abuse by the doctors for perscribing it. Especially OTC meds.
2) Reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.
With no incentive to provide quality care, physicians and nurses leave the government-monopolized area for better opportunities in a freer country. Shortages result. Drug companies are hindered by price controls and regulations and soon cease research and development of new medication. In the U.S., start-up drug companies cannot afford to run the FDA gauntlet, so the market is dominated by a few established corporations.
LOL... This just gets better! If that were the case, mate, then everyone in Canada would be deadmeat why? because all their doctors left!!!! LOL - and you can add Japan, German, England, etc... But they seem to be doing fine. All hospitals have excellent to poor doctors on their staffs. You should know this to be the case. During your incident, I'm sure you knew which were doing their best. And we're in a capitalist market health care system....
Some of the best doctors are the GP (General Practicitioner) out in the rural areas. They became doctors for all the right reasons - to be the best in their profession and offer a vital service to their community - check out Doctors Without Borders.
Drug companies make BANK if they nail a vaccine!! Think that's enough incentive for them to do research and development??? Hell YES!
Just another asinine point.
3) Steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.
Yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. However, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - All "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people.
Currently I pay $430 a month for healthcare for my family of 4. That's $5160 a year!!! That's nearly a months salary for me! And yet we have co-pays and coverage doesn't cover alot. So what's my point - besides needing to find a better setup than Etna?
Everyone pays already. Do you think your HMO is free? Hell no. You're employer - in accordance to CA state law dictates they either cover 50% or all of the monthly costs. Little companies - like ours with less than 50 employees - cannot get a decent discount to make it viable for us to offer - I know I looked. Large corps get all the breaks in mass healthcare. So everyone else pays.
But lets say its universal. The money they would normally pay you might actually come to you - or it may be a wash considering any tax increase that may be necessary - who knows?
4) The quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.
As the poor and middle-class wait in agony for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.
LOL... What a load of scare tactics bullsheet! Again if this were true, all those nations I've mentioned would be losing population in droves!
5) Destroys your privacy.
Suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. If you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, I have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars. Your neighbors might support government bans on smoking, "unsafe" sex or other "risky" behaviors to reduce costs. Politicians will use the federal bureaucracy to force you and your family to comply with programs such as the "New Freedom Commission on Mental Health".
WTF??? This point is beyond stupid. So what if you drive without a helmet - you're an idiot that if you wreck and crack open you nugget then so be it. What interest is it to me? Liek I said WTF?? LOL
As for privacy... Currently right now medical records are shared to ensure that you won't be misdiagnosed or mis-medicated!!! GE is working a system that no matter where you are in the US and abroad - your medical records can become accessible at a moments notice - keying up highlights of your health.
That argument is moot! lol...
6) Destroys your liberty.
When you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money - and this will not be you, your friends or your family. The power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.
This was truly the FUNNIEST.
I'm old enough to remember that argument when they were passing laws to make insurance manditory! Still to this day I see peeps get bent over because they get hit by uninsured motorist and all they have is PL/PD.
Universal healthcare would be no more liberty reducer than getting your driver's license. Why is it that whenever the government steps up to provide service - peeps squeel before hand.
Think all those people in Texas are wondering how they are going to rebuild?? lol... it isn't the insurance companies. It will be ol'Uncle Sam with the fathomless pockets.
Got more to offer you in rebuttal - but the wife's giving me the stink eye
Last edited by Palindari™; 09-13-2008 at 03:56 PM.
#49
09-13-2008, 04:01 PM
Real quick.
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=H04
Look at the lower numbers. Wonder why the GOP get twice as much more donations than Democrats??? lol...
Give you 3 guesses and the first two don't count
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=H04
Look at the lower numbers. Wonder why the GOP get twice as much more donations than Democrats??? lol...
Give you 3 guesses and the first two don't count
#50
09-13-2008, 04:16 PM
^ actually my wife did while I was laid up drugged out of my mind.....She called out health care provider and they stated I had a couple of options. UCLA......or USC, USC was the better option, better surgons yes and 100% coverage unlike UCLA which wasn't 100%. By the way read further into the link I posted instead of the top of the page !!! Theres problems with S.M., Its not the answer everyones looking for. Ya homeless and poor people will have medical coverage, but there will be numerous effects on everyone else too, you know the average joe !!! You have your opinion and I have mine. The statistics talk for themselves, and I'm not for it !!!