I agree about the myth of Japanese reliability. At one point they were far and away the most reliable cars, but every manufacturer has pretty much caught up (German, American, Korean... yes even Korean). It's just the previous perception that drives that myth. Have you seen the crash test results on a Volvo lately? They aren't really any better than any other car and in some cases they are are worse, yet the "safety" perception lives on.

 

Norton - I understand where you're coming from, although my source of information is a little different - Consumer Reports. Looking through most of the German models indicates common problems with electrical, transmission, fuel system(those are the components I rememeber off the top of my head).

The scale is something like this:

Orange filled in circle - Much Better than Averag
Orange half Circle - Better than Average
White circle - Average
Half black circle - Worse than Average
Black filled in circle - Much Worse than Average

Japanese cars are mostly orange (for the most part).
German cars typically have a lot of black in the above mentioned areas.

So unless the Japanese PR has been able to influence Consumer Reports reporting, I think I would trust the numbers.

That being said, I own one of each:
2009 TSX - squeeky brakes (which are identified in CR with a black circle).
2007 Rabbit - One of the highest rated German cars in CR (and quite capable on the autobahn I might add).

Just my 2 cents

 

Hi:

Norton is very right about the quality of the above vehicle. I have taken my car four times (1st time at less than a 1000 km) for wheel vibes/steering shakes problems and everytime the dealer keeps it for 8/10 hrs, does a bit of "road-force balancnig" and says there the problem is solved. 4th time he says that you need a new front tire and ofcourse I had to pay because it was a road damage and had 18000 km on it. I argued and eventually they discounted installation/balacnig. I talked to Audi Canada - a very "sympathetic" lady who kept telling me that she is not a technician so the dealer knows best and gave me a case no. in case the problem is not resolved. Well the problem is still there - at around 100 km the vibe appears (although not as severe as before). I will take it back again Monday. i am now giving my complaint to Audi in writing. Some forums says "good luck". I do not expect a luxury car to behave like that and especially on long drives it is nerve-wracking to hve your head massaged constantly by the luxurious headrest and then i start thinking about the monthly payments i make to drive this luxurious car. Maybe I got a lemon too but I guess in Canada there are no lemon laws. The consumer has to suffer for it while Audi is doing their research and development to finally come to some conclusion. This R&D is being paid by the consumer in terms of purchasing tires, newer hi-tech balancing machines etc. while the dealer is trying to solve by a process of elimination.
My friends say sometimes it is better to buy a used car and not have any dealer/Audi involvements as there are some very experienced and qualified techs and mechanics at independent garages. I hve complete faith in dealer techs also while they work hard to solve your problems but it seems that they are not being kept updated and informed by engineering.
So it boils down to the fact that Audi is not in my list for another new car.
Best regards to all and sorry for this rant.

 

you're naive to believe everything you read from consumer reports. i used to buy everything based on consumer reports and everything i bought based on their recommendations crapped out. why can't i log into consumer reports or JD power and take part in the survey? how does that make sense if a consumer can't provide input?

ADK, you're exactly right. the japanese use technology that's old and proven while the germans (audi and BMW mainly) are always on the cutting edge.

 

Not sure where I said I believe everything I read in CR. It's a guide. It's not based on reader input, it's based on collection of statistics (for autos) and in house testing (most other products).
I've actually had pretty good luck with using CR as a guide, especially since reliability is higher on my list than features....but back to the cars. I've owned mostly Japanese cars for the past 19 years and have had to replace an AC **** and a thermostat (non-normal maintenance). Other than that, normal maintenance.
Not sure where you guys have been the last twenty years. The Japanese (mostly Honda) have introduced more new technologies (from what I have seen).
Was VTEC an old technology (copied by everyone else)?
Was SH/AWD an old technology?
Was hybrid an old technology?
What new technology is German? Not sure who introduced direct-injection.

I'm not bashing German cars....I love the way they drive and most feel like they're carved from a solid chunk of stone, nor would I ever question engines. The main issues, as reported by data collection by CR, is electrical, fuel delivery system, transmission. It's merely a factor to take into account.

BTW - the "Much worse than average" is still small....something like 20% or less.

I'm in here not to stir things up, but because I am actually considering buying a A4 Avant since I can get it tax free in Europe.

 

A free and open reliablitlity poll is available here http://www.truedelta.com/

 

Thanks for proving my point.

Variable valve timing, what Honda calls VTEC was actually an old technology used on steam engine trains. It's use on cars was first thought up by Porsche (German).

SH/AWD haha, only 30 years late to the party! I drove a 2010 6spd TL SHAWD before I bought my A4, the AWD is not nearly as refined as even my 2005 Subaru - not to mention that the 6spd trans. that was mated to the engine was awful - you could tell it was an after thought.

The first Hybrid was made by Porsche, but credit has to go to Toyota for mass producing the first modern hybrid in '97, 2 years before Honda came out with the insight.

Direct Injection was created by, you guessed it, Germans for their Airplanes. Then first used by Mercedes in an auto application.

 

so the germans invent everything but the japanese car marketers brainwash the world into giving them the credit. even fuel injection, way back ~20 years ago, was german engineering.

jaystsx, that's a great deal to get a car there tax free. how did you manage that?

 

Military stationed overseas can purchase a vehicle and as long as they own it more than 6 motnhs before returning to the States, do not pay sales tax. Not sure why, but it's one of the many perks associated with living out of country (which in itself is a perk).

BTW - I haven't purchased yet.

I'm debating between A4 (Avant or Sedan), GTI (~$15,000 cheaper), or G35. I'm leaning toward GTI though simply due cost (plus the GTI is a heck of a car).

 

byrun - appreciate the link!

I'll have to spend some more time in there, but just a quick browse indicates more trips (generally speaking) to the service shop by the German cars than Japanese (Which is the original intent of the post).