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So you want 300 reliable HP, CHEAP on a stock turbo? STICKY?

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:35 AM
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Default So you want 300 reliable HP, CHEAP on a stock turbo? STICKY?

I coipied this from another thread I posted it in. There are the basic steps or stages to accomplish this. This is another question that seems to be asked every couple of days and nobody is searching or read related sticky's.

I can assure you I have a vast knowledge on the B7 and MKV platforms and they share the same engine.

Normally I would say an intake is a good idea on most cars, just not these. Not worth the money unless you want to just blow a wad of cash on something you will not feel and probably not not notice on the gas pump either.

I can assure you a modding stage breakdown for the 2.0t is as follows:

1. Chip $500 -600+ depending on features. 40 hp or so for stage 1. (No other mods required)
2. PCV $100 or so. I like BSH but there are others that are not as good. (Recommended before chip as they blow easy.)
3. Diverter Valve. I like the stock "D" Revision over aftermarket as they require no maintanence. ECS has for $79.99 shipped. (Also is a good idea prior to chipping but not nessecary.)
3. High Flow cat or Test Pipe. (test pipes are under $100 on Ebay and Cat pipes will be more)
4. Stage 2 programing to accompany your new pipe. This will delete any codes and fine tune the car more. This adds about 20hp +. (Free from your original chip tuner)
5. Stage 2 Plus programing with an aftermarket fuel pump. (Program is free but an APR pump new is about $1,000, APR rebuilt is about $500, other brands are arount $300 ish) I would recommend an APR rebuilt. They are very meticulous and use a clean room. A HPFP failure will cost you an engine. This upgrade is good for another 20 - 25hp or more. Brings the top end up greatly.
6. K04 kits are getting cheaper and can be had for $2000-$3000 fully loaded. (Not in my price range) Cost per HP really starts going up here as maybe 50-75hp is going to be had here.

This is the cost effective performance route. For about $1200 my way you can go from 200hp to 300hp that is reliable. Any intake or Cat-Back will net you next to nothing. Our stock exhaust is about 2.4 inch or so which means exhaust on a stock turbo is not even needed. These 2 mods will be mostly from a looks and sound point of view and will cost over $1000 + for noise makers. Not my style or the way I prefer to waste money.

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Old 02-08-2010, 05:12 AM
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300hp to the wheels?

ill chime in as well....

chip = win
pcv fix, I am running stage 2+ with no problem with pcv...however you can change/upgrade to make yourself feel better....

3...D is not the current one, if I am not mistaken...thought it was H?? Either way, good alternative, but I am running forge dv, not sure how much maintenance it needs..

4. upgrades not not always free, depends on where and who you go. GIAC has no cell delete for test pipe or HFC depends on what you get.

5. APR has a great pump, but a bit pricey...upgrade the internals and you will have the same results..

6. agreed, go gt28
 
  #3  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:33 PM
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I think for stages 2 (maybe) and 3 (for sure), the front mount intercooler helps out alot. I think stage 3 w/ fmic allows for 20 more hp due to the colder intake air.
 
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Quattros
300hp to the wheels?

ill chime in as well....

chip = win
pcv fix, I am running stage 2+ with no problem with pcv...however you can change/upgrade to make yourself feel better....

3...D is not the current one, if I am not mistaken...thought it was H?? Either way, good alternative, but I am running forge dv, not sure how much maintenance it needs..

4. upgrades not not always free, depends on where and who you go. GIAC has no cell delete for test pipe or HFC depends on what you get.

5. APR has a great pump, but a bit pricey...upgrade the internals and you will have the same results..

6. agreed, go gt28
300 horse is not at the wheels but neither is your stock 200 horse. 100hp is not too shabby for the cost we can get it for.

Your PCV will fail. It is proven to be a ticking time bomb especially with upgrades. You will not be so lucky forever. It is a part that is cheap enough to put on and stop the problem before it ever surfaces.

There is an H diverter valve but it actually came out before the "D" Valve. D is the most current and only piston style aside from aftermarket. Aftermaret ones should be maintained about every oil change which is a pain in the ***. At least for me as i'm into convenience.

Your chip dealer will upgrade your stages for possibly a fee for their time. Most will charge $50 if they do't do it for free.

APR has the best pump period. They are meticulous and use a clean room. You can buy a kit for you to do in your garage but if this part faile, so does your engine. I would pay a little more for this part for security but that is just me.
 

Last edited by 2wdBlazer; 02-08-2010 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
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I don't want to start an e-fight, but APR does have great products and I know their rep's, etc, but it's hard to claim anything as the best period. Only way to prove this is by log's, dynos, etc etc..Essentially every fuel pump internals will do the same for you, and as contradicting as this sounds, other companies might have "better" than others. I have been running my kmd with NO problem and shocking enough without much cam follower wear..does make them the best? prob not. Lastly, how do you know they make these pumps in a clean room...you work for them? there when they make every pump?

i'll repeat, they make great products and their fuel pump is one of them. It is like saying, the AWE FMIC is the best known to man based on their large size. It's great, but might not be the best PERIOD.

Whatever the current DV is out has been working fine, but my buddy with stage 3 has blown that, maybe he the only one? Who knows, I tell people to stick with the new revision or run the new b8 DV with the conversion kit for b7.


Either way, great info and will help people.
 
  #6  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:57 AM
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from dyno testing i know that a lot of the claims are different from the gains. everything the op listed will get you around 220-230 whp. If you want to near that 300 mark, get a fmic, and water meth w/tuning. This will get you closer. We did dyno testing on a b7 we developed our exhaust for, the baseline that had software from another vendor put down about 170 whp 225 wtq. After fitting it with our exhaust and switching to unitronic we made 195whp and 215 wtq. Please keep in mind that these are only peak numbers, and peak numbers dont really mean much. the avg numbers are the important thing. With the uni and exhaust we managed to keep power levels greater across the board yielding better avg numbers.

best thing is still a k04 or gt upgrade.
 
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Quattros
I don't want to start an e-fight, but APR does have great products and I know their rep's, etc, but it's hard to claim anything as the best period. Only way to prove this is by log's, dynos, etc etc..Essentially every fuel pump internals will do the same for you, and as contradicting as this sounds, other companies might have "better" than others. I have been running my kmd with NO problem and shocking enough without much cam follower wear..does make them the best? prob not. Lastly, how do you know they make these pumps in a clean room...you work for them? there when they make every pump?

i'll repeat, they make great products and their fuel pump is one of them. It is like saying, the AWE FMIC is the best known to man based on their large size. It's great, but might not be the best PERIOD.

Whatever the current DV is out has been working fine, but my buddy with stage 3 has blown that, maybe he the only one? Who knows, I tell people to stick with the new revision or run the new b8 DV with the conversion kit for b7.


Either way, great info and will help people.
No E-fight here. Just giving my opinions which I consider good advice. I have seen pictures of the APR clean room and I believe if you are in the Alabama HQ they will show you around their facilities so you can see for yourself. Not sure if KMD is built by them or a kit but I have heard of failures on that pump. The Autotech pump that you rebuild yourself is also opening up yourself for problems. You have to realize that one wrong piece of dirt or dust inside that rebuild can destory your engine. I normally am not an APR pusher because I hate many of their overpriced items but their FP's new and when they rebuid yours does use a clean room and personally I do not want to save a few hundred bucks somewhere else and have a catastophic failure. That is just my way of thinking. To each their own.

As far as the Diverter valve goes, If he got an 'h' version thinking it was the newest it wasn't. The "D" is the newest and the only one with a piston inside. I have never seen one of these fail.
 
  #8  
Old 02-10-2010, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rayveedub
from dyno testing i know that a lot of the claims are different from the gains. everything the op listed will get you around 220-230 whp. If you want to near that 300 mark, get a fmic, and water meth w/tuning. This will get you closer. We did dyno testing on a b7 we developed our exhaust for, the baseline that had software from another vendor put down about 170 whp 225 wtq. After fitting it with our exhaust and switching to unitronic we made 195whp and 215 wtq. Please keep in mind that these are only peak numbers, and peak numbers dont really mean much. the avg numbers are the important thing. With the uni and exhaust we managed to keep power levels greater across the board yielding better avg numbers.

best thing is still a k04 or gt upgrade.
My numbers are getting closer to 300ish.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/...27080362_o.png

This car had
2006 Audi A3
stock K03 turbo
HPFP (Fuel Pump)
Revo Stg. 2+ fuel pump file
GHL 3" downpipe with stock cat-back
Forge DV
Forge wastegate actuator (yellow 10-15 PSI spring)
Forge TWINtercooler

Pretty sure these are Wheel HP numbers and could be achieved without those FORGE mods.
 
  #9  
Old 02-10-2010, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 2wdBlazer
No E-fight here. Just giving my opinions which I consider good advice. I have seen pictures of the APR clean room and I believe if you are in the Alabama HQ they will show you around their facilities so you can see for yourself. Not sure if KMD is built by them or a kit but I have heard of failures on that pump. The Autotech pump that you rebuild yourself is also opening up yourself for problems. You have to realize that one wrong piece of dirt or dust inside that rebuild can destory your engine. I normally am not an APR pusher because I hate many of their overpriced items but their FP's new and when they rebuid yours does use a clean room and personally I do not want to save a few hundred bucks somewhere else and have a catastophic failure. That is just my way of thinking. To each their own.

As far as the Diverter valve goes, If he got an 'h' version thinking it was the newest it wasn't. The "D" is the newest and the only one with a piston inside. I have never seen one of these fail.

to each their own is correct, i haven't read or seen any failures by people who have made their own kits. I have done mine and lot's of my friends have as well with no issue besides the cam follower, which is typical for audi & vw, unless I am missing something here.

AWE does offer a rebuild as well, but their stuff has been on back order for ages now and not sure with the other companies.

As stated before, your advice is great and for the most point on point, however I just want to let other members know their are other companies that offer fuel pumps/internals. APR has a great pump and people running their stage 3 kits are happy with them as well. I personally didnt go with APR's kit, but went with KMD and haven't experienced excess wear on my cam follower nor my engine being torn to bits and pieces (knocks on wood).

Great thread to help other members with info. I would just further add running FMIC or SMIC, with all the extra power you will run the engine more and might need a FMIC.

just my 2 cents. I am a noob though, you seem more technically inclined then myself
 
  #10  
Old 02-10-2010, 08:50 PM
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i have a mustang dyno, not a dyno jet. i base everything on that. but yeah if you go dyno jet then you can put down more.
 


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