bad cam lobe
#11
Ok, after 1 and 1/2 days I finished replacing the camshaft. A bear to get the air pump valve and camshaft position sensor housing off the rear of the head (passenger side). But with the right tools and a ton of patience, it is possible. Hell if the Audi tech can do it, so can I... after all its not rocket science. One tip... a big tip. After ALL the parts are back together, and I closed that hood... guess what? It couldn't open. I finally saw a tread whereby you have to pry off the grill and remove the 3 nuts that hold the hood latch. Because of a tight fit, again, the right long wrench and viola! In total the parts were about $700, and that includes the special tools to hold the camshafts in the right timing position. DO NOT attempt to do this without these clamps... on e-bay for about $120. The dealer wanted crazy prices for the camshaft. On Blau, the parts were about $490 in kit form. The kit inluded rollers, gaskets, o-rings, etc. A really good deal and about $700 cheaper than the dealer. The car now purrs. Also, use a torque wrench, these engines are aluminum and are very soft. This keeps you from stripping the threads. One other note. My cam follower was worn completely through to an internal tube. The Bently manual (another must, for about $100) says when the wear is this bad, to replace the head. I did not see a need, so only the followers and the camshaft were replaced. O, one more thing. The plastic hoses that vent the rear of the valve covers are brittle from age and heat exposure (hello Audi engineers... a little better quality hear) so they break when you try to move them out of the way. I used small sections of a rubber hose to "splice" the breaks. This seems to have worked.
After tackling this job, I have respect for a complicated (maybe sophisticated is the word) engine. I don't know if it is overkill or just great engineering. Maybe a little of both. Good luck all. Remember to put the hood release cable back in its place before you close the hood (it slips out of its socket with all the movement).
After tackling this job, I have respect for a complicated (maybe sophisticated is the word) engine. I don't know if it is overkill or just great engineering. Maybe a little of both. Good luck all. Remember to put the hood release cable back in its place before you close the hood (it slips out of its socket with all the movement).
#12
What is really interesting is that I started hearing the clicking sound on my B6 3.0 when it had 96k miles, and when they opened the passenger side valve cover to look at the camshaft it looked exactly the same. OMG but how come it always happens at that same side, why it does not effect the other parts, i know our cars have 4 camshafts. Anyway, for me the whole procedure was 1300$$$ and 10k miles later it runs perfect and sounds perfect. Why do you think it happens(oil pump, low pressure?) and why it only happened to the passenger side?
#13
I happen to be a metallurgical engineer by trade. For the government at that!
My best guess is, during the manufacturing, the "hardening" procedure did not cover the cam lobe in question (passenger side). So during manufacturing, they made a bunch of these camshafts... only to have them fail/wear after 60k+ miles. It happens. It happens on aircraft all the time, I mean the quality control problems. Hardening is done using a "gas carburizing" process. If something is masking this area, preventing the hardening, then us customers pay for it later. Audi meanwhile turns their back and says "oh, this happened AFTER the warranty"... when indeed, they produced a quality defective product. I am sure this happened many times, enough for a service bulletin to be issued. Most customers not knowing any better just turned it over to the dealer and received a big bill. Take it from me, manufacturing defect 100%.
My best guess is, during the manufacturing, the "hardening" procedure did not cover the cam lobe in question (passenger side). So during manufacturing, they made a bunch of these camshafts... only to have them fail/wear after 60k+ miles. It happens. It happens on aircraft all the time, I mean the quality control problems. Hardening is done using a "gas carburizing" process. If something is masking this area, preventing the hardening, then us customers pay for it later. Audi meanwhile turns their back and says "oh, this happened AFTER the warranty"... when indeed, they produced a quality defective product. I am sure this happened many times, enough for a service bulletin to be issued. Most customers not knowing any better just turned it over to the dealer and received a big bill. Take it from me, manufacturing defect 100%.
#14
I was thinking it was manufacturing defect, there's really no other reason why it would happen. Good thing you figured it out. I'm going to have to check up on mine as well, I usually keep a good eye on it for maintenance it so far it has been fairly reliable. Thanks for posting a follow up.
#15
One last tip... before you close the hood... make sure the hood release cable is still attached! Otherwise you can't get the hood open!!! Great, after 2 days of pain staking work UGGH! It tends to pop out when the front of the car is pur into "service position". Well you would have to pry the front grill out, then remove 3 nuts that hold the latch to the hood. Painfull. Well, so far my car is purring and I am very happy with my major repair... thank god for the Bentley manual.
#16
Ok, after 1 and 1/2 days I finished replacing the camshaft. A bear to get the air pump valve and camshaft position sensor housing off the rear of the head (passenger side). But with the right tools and a ton of patience, it is possible. Hell if the Audi tech can do it, so can I... after all its not rocket science. One tip... a big tip. After ALL the parts are back together, and I closed that hood... guess what? It couldn't open. I finally saw a tread whereby you have to pry off the grill and remove the 3 nuts that hold the hood latch. Because of a tight fit, again, the right long wrench and viola! In total the parts were about $700, and that includes the special tools to hold the camshafts in the right timing position. DO NOT attempt to do this without these clamps... on e-bay for about $120. The dealer wanted crazy prices for the camshaft. On Blau, the parts were about $490 in kit form. The kit inluded rollers, gaskets, o-rings, etc. A really good deal and about $700 cheaper than the dealer. The car now purrs. Also, use a torque wrench, these engines are aluminum and are very soft. This keeps you from stripping the threads. One other note. My cam follower was worn completely through to an internal tube. The Bently manual (another must, for about $100) says when the wear is this bad, to replace the head. I did not see a need, so only the followers and the camshaft were replaced. O, one more thing. The plastic hoses that vent the rear of the valve covers are brittle from age and heat exposure (hello Audi engineers... a little better quality hear) so they break when you try to move them out of the way. I used small sections of a rubber hose to "splice" the breaks. This seems to have worked.
After tackling this job, I have respect for a complicated (maybe sophisticated is the word) engine. I don't know if it is overkill or just great engineering. Maybe a little of both. Good luck all. Remember to put the hood release cable back in its place before you close the hood (it slips out of its socket with all the movement).
After tackling this job, I have respect for a complicated (maybe sophisticated is the word) engine. I don't know if it is overkill or just great engineering. Maybe a little of both. Good luck all. Remember to put the hood release cable back in its place before you close the hood (it slips out of its socket with all the movement).
The 3.0L is intense isn't it? I have a thread from long ago where I pulled one down to the base and made it a table in my living room. Audi definitely got intricate with each system in it
#17
Hi RA. Oh, yes. While not imposible for the do-it-yourself guy, I would rate this cam replacement job a good 9 (scale of 10 being the mist difficult).
Still another tip. This 3.0 does not stop challenging me! And I could say it was entirely MY FAULT. This engine does not allow for many mistakes and I made an elemental one. Here it is: New camshaft... and I used the old camshaft seal. What happens you say? Well, an oil leak! Not a major one, just enough to leave 2-3 drops overnight and enough for it to flow on the exhaust manifold... and we have: you guessed it, a burning oil smell at stoplights.
So it is back to moving the front of the car into "service position", removing belts, valve covers, timing belt covers and finally the cam gears. Then finally, get those old oil seals out! All 4 of the cam shafts and the crankshaft (front oil seal) too.
Before this "second time around" I drove the A4 from Dayton to Wash DC, 4 times (480 miles each way). But as I am a perfectionist, it was time to park it in its hangar and do the oil seal work. I love the looks of the car, the way it drives and its overall feel. Maybe thats why AUDI folks like us don't give up and take care of these cars.
Good motoring!
Still another tip. This 3.0 does not stop challenging me! And I could say it was entirely MY FAULT. This engine does not allow for many mistakes and I made an elemental one. Here it is: New camshaft... and I used the old camshaft seal. What happens you say? Well, an oil leak! Not a major one, just enough to leave 2-3 drops overnight and enough for it to flow on the exhaust manifold... and we have: you guessed it, a burning oil smell at stoplights.
So it is back to moving the front of the car into "service position", removing belts, valve covers, timing belt covers and finally the cam gears. Then finally, get those old oil seals out! All 4 of the cam shafts and the crankshaft (front oil seal) too.
Before this "second time around" I drove the A4 from Dayton to Wash DC, 4 times (480 miles each way). But as I am a perfectionist, it was time to park it in its hangar and do the oil seal work. I love the looks of the car, the way it drives and its overall feel. Maybe thats why AUDI folks like us don't give up and take care of these cars.
Good motoring!
#18
I had the same issue on my 02 A4 3.0 w/ 63k miles. Just got my car back 10/12/10. I took it in the *** by having a recommended shop do the work. I ended up with a bent valve as well. Cost me $2800 to replace the valve, camshaft, 6 lifters and a water pump. Could not have happened at a WORST time too. I just paid for my own wedding. The shop even gave me 10% off as a wedding gift (no joke). Otherwise, it would not have been that big of a deal. I bought the car off of the second owner. I paid 5k less than KBB because the seller fell on hard times and needed to dump it. I don't know how often he changed the oil and what weight he used. This is the first "major" repaired I've had to do on any car I've own over the last 12 year. I guess that the price you pay to drive a beautiful, safe, well handling machine.
#20
Keeping the timing
The shafts do not have any timing marks, an unusual feature. So you have to use a special tool (2 "c" clamps") as shown in the ebay link:
hhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-AUDI-AVK-V6-Camshaft-Alignment-Timing-Locking-Tool-/250806567440?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3 a653c8210
If that link does not come up, you can search "Audi timing tool" in ebay motors. The tool is also used for timing belt installation.
As far as getting the seal out of the sensor, I don't remember it being a problem. I'd go to the Bentley manual. I do remember removing the sensor, and that gave you access to the seal. Please DO replace the seals new, unless you want an oil leak. And DO use the timing tool, it is the only way of assuring your valves will not hit the pistons (a very very bad thing).
I have the special tool if you want it, I'll sell for $30 plus shipping. Regular prices is $109 + tax and shipping from e-bay. I don't need it anymore.
Let us know how you do in this repair.
hhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-AUDI-AVK-V6-Camshaft-Alignment-Timing-Locking-Tool-/250806567440?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3 a653c8210
If that link does not come up, you can search "Audi timing tool" in ebay motors. The tool is also used for timing belt installation.
As far as getting the seal out of the sensor, I don't remember it being a problem. I'd go to the Bentley manual. I do remember removing the sensor, and that gave you access to the seal. Please DO replace the seals new, unless you want an oil leak. And DO use the timing tool, it is the only way of assuring your valves will not hit the pistons (a very very bad thing).
I have the special tool if you want it, I'll sell for $30 plus shipping. Regular prices is $109 + tax and shipping from e-bay. I don't need it anymore.
Let us know how you do in this repair.