Yeah the EFR seems like the only turbo availible that is going to allow you to have your cake and eat it too. 300lb ft at 3700 RPM is going to be impossible to beat ina turbo that is also capable of 400awhp.

You are not going to get stock spool and 300awhp. Your not going to get 300awhp and stock spool. Factor in that your not wanting to spend the money that will get you closest to what your asking for (EFR) and you will quickly realize that your literally chasing your tail.

 

I know you'll argue it but I see absolutely no way of a GT2560R making 300whp on our cars.

If people with a GTRS can get >300whp its because they're pushing it to the absolute limit with huge boost numbers which is also killing the powerband making it pointless.

The average awhp for a gtrs is 260-280 it seems. Theres really just no way a GT2560R will get to the 300awhp mark on a b5

 

Uhh I don't see why you are saying it will not. A GT28RS is marginally bigger then a GT2560R. The FP T28 used in the DSM AWD cars for the longest time was GT2560 internals and then they swapped to GT28RS internals later calling it the BIG T28. Both of these setups have broke 300whp and the Big T28 broke 330awhp with pump. These turbos do not use ball bearings.

Have you even looked its compressor map and compared it too the GT2860RS. Garrett rates the GT2860RS at 360hp. The GT2560R is rated at 330hp but has already been proven over this in RWD setup; yes it was maxed out.

Yes the setup will most likely be maxxing out but for the goals asked for he has no other option. Use a small enough turbo to get as much spool as possible that will still make 300awhp. Or get a bigger turbo that will spool to slow but still make the same power. There will also need to be the appropiate mods.

Can it get 300awhp; no doubt in my mind. Typical rule of thumb is for every 1 lb min of flow you make 8.5-10whp at absolute peak. 8.5 x 36 is 306 awhp. If you use the billet compressor you make more then the GT28RS and it is quoted at 40lb min flow.

These are not numbers I am pulling out of my ***. These are numbers from accepted calculations and from other comparable examples.

The GT2x Eliminator uses the GT2554R turbo and can make 240awhp on A4 with max spool at 3K using a stock exhaust and stock side mount. The GT2554R flows 28 lb min and compare that too 36 lb min by the GT2560R. 8 lb min is a lot more. It is just not as widely used since the GT28RS exists and is so highly regarded.

Also the difference between the GT2560R and GT28RS in compressor size is minimal.

GT2560R is 46.5mm and 60mm
GT28RS is 47.2mm and 60mm

Hell even the turbines are fairly similiar with the GT28RS having a larger exducer.

 

two things:
1. With the EFR tubros what will have to be replaced?
2. The lowest powered one(the on with the power range I want) is discontinued...

 

With the 6258 you could get by pretty easy. You would have to adapt the oil lines, get a turbo manifold, adapt its intake, and adapt a downpipe. Its flange is a T25 so you could use a cheap eBay APR knock off manifold. Lots of people have and I have yet to see any complaints.

There really is nothing different with this setup compared to the GT setups (except the eliminator). They are considerably more expensive though. Substitute the $900 turbo for a $1450-$1500 turbo and then add the rest of parts to it.

This would make the best setup hands down. However if you really wanted to build something that will get you close to the same spool of the EFR but not the same AWHP potential its perfectly possible.

I think you need to get a better understanding of how this stuff works and what is necessary. I have seen it happen far to many times on other forums where members buy stuff based off of others suggestions and then regret it. Typically the response you get from members is what they would do and sometimes they lose sight of what your asking. I am not saying that is the issue here. I am saying that you need to research this more and have a better understanding so that you can come up with your own ideas and then run them by members or even better a place like 034 motorsports or RAI motorsports which both have given me great advice.

There is also more then just swapping in a turbo, like tune, injectors, MAF, and a wad of other ****. A properly balanced and well executed GT2871R build will outperform a thrown together EFR. I am not saying it can't be done on a strict budget with fantastic results. Nor is there a problem with buying cheap BUT known reputable parts. What I am saying is that you are going to have to set a strict budget with realistic goals. Figure out exactly what you NEED for the cars intended purpose and then build to that specification. Try to locate other builds that have succeeded at what you are trying to accomplish and ask as many questions as possible.

Good luck....

 

Because I've been around these cars and a ton of big turbo setups, I know and have talked with a bunch of tuners who have done a huge number of different set ups, and have done a massive amount of research on our cars setups. Like I said about GTRS dyno's the average AWHP numbers are right around 270.

DSM cars can not be directly related to audis and I realize what the numbers say it can do but I'm talking from being a part of the community, being to many dyno days and never seeing a gt2560R get close to 300awhp.

Yes I've looked at a ton of compressor maps, but I'm talking about real life, I've only seen a couple cars that made it over 300awhp with a GTRS without race gas.
Could a gt2560R make 300awhp? Hypothetically sure with a ton of boost, every supporting mod and maybe some meth/race gas. But this thread should be about realistic expectations, look through the thread you posted of b6 dynos, theres a few GTRS cars that made under 250awhp..

It would make much more sense to just go with a full frame GTRS, theres really no sacrifice in spool for the extra power.

 

i completely agree. far too often do i see comparisons drawn up between turbo's used on audi's and, for instance, sr20det's. they are completely different animals, or in the case of audi, lack of animal. don't get me wrong, the 1.8t is a great engine, but i just don't think a 2liter 1.8t would compete with a sr20det.

op isnt willing to go efr series, than it sounds like a gtrs is the choice to go with. not mention they can be had cheaply for used ones.

 

Thanks for the info guys. It's not that I'm not willing to go EFR it's just I'm trying to figure out the best setup without having to go and find a bunch of parts to even fit with my car. I'm willing to do the work but if there is a better choice I would rather go that direction. So if I were to go with a full frame GTRS what would be the accompanying mods that I would need to make it fit? I know the requirements to make everything work together the only thing I'm not keen on is fitment. Also, where(other than classifieds) would I buy a full frame GTRS?

 

MElo and Rdline- I was pretty specific when I stated that it would have to be taken to the max. The GT2560 in other vehicles when compared to the GT28RS makes about 20 hp less. I only compare turbos on our motor to other motors in the fashion that if a GT2860RS made 360whp on a SR20DET and a GT2560R made 340whp then by simple understanding if a GT2860RS makes 320awhp on ours the GT2560R should make 300awhp. (this is JUST an example however I have seen 352rwhp from a GT2560R on SR20DET)

I looked and found GT2X eliminator setup and it made 240awhp on a B6 with a stock exhaust and MAF. The GT2560R outflows the GT2554 by 8 lb min which would easily put it past the GT2554. The thing that is weird though is the GT2554 uses such a big turbine AR where the GT2560R is smaller. The extra power made with GT2560R is by using the bigger housing and delaying boost peak till a slightly higher RPM. A delayed peak torque to a higher RPM will creat significantly more hp.

Simple math: hp = tq*RPM/5252

If you make peak torque at 3000 RPM and torque is 260 lb ft you get 148 hp at 3000 RPM. Then you delay peak torque by 500 RPMS the 260 becomes 173hp. The same setup that makes 260 lb ft peak at 3000 will now have the same increase across the power band by simple delaying peak torque. RPM's is what makes hp. This is why you make more hp by turning the boost up. It increase torque past your original peak torque.

This is why big turbos make big hp. You are in their effiency range at higher RPM. Why small turbos make more torque then bigger turbos. Since there efficency range is at a lower RPM. Most people want a mix between the two.

Also I looked everywhere and have yet to find a GT2560R dyno for our 1.8t. It would be nice to see a comparison between the two on the same car that was making 300whp with a GT2860RS.


Atleast we ALL agree on the EFR. I would guess the second best option at GT28RS (or GT2560R with billet compressor) and either E85 or Race Gas for events.

 

I think the main reasons for this are that it was never offered in a "kit" plus it just makes more sense to go with the GTRS if you wanna go "big turbo"