Yeah I know. There are actually some cheaper and just as capable tunes availible. I considered United Motorsport since they were priced pretty fair.

Where I consider the Maestro to have added value the others do not is that you can tune yourself if you are patient. Plus if later on you change your setup say with a larger turbo you can use Maestro to adjust to accomadate it. With Revo or Uni its not going to match turbos that are significantly different.

Also RAI offered to readjust my tune if I would datalog and send him the file for considerably less then what the dyno tune would run.

redline: When I spoke to RAI he mentioned that the Maestro was easier to tune one the AEB compared to the newer stuff since the otions were not nearly as vast. I know with the wideband ECU's you have to get a lot more right.

Other features that make Maestro a better value to me is datalog capabilities and it has VAGcom like function.

I considered this for quite sometime but chose not too. The AEM FIC is a very capable piggy back. It directly controls fuel injectors pulse width. It will also accomadate larger fuel injectors by using its injector wizard. It will retard timing, clamp MAF, and also narrow and wideband tune. It does have a datalog function as well. It uses an internal MAP sensor and allows you to create your tune based off of it. They are specifically designed to work with OBD2 vehicles and can be had for less then $350 new and even cheaper used. I know most will laugh at this idea but the $400 difference can go to other places.

Here are some videso if you want to check them out.

Wideband O2 UEGO, Water/Methanol, Stand Alone Engine Management, Piggyback F/IC, Tru Boost Controller, Gauges, Automotive Performance Electronics - CRE Loaded Store Articles - F/IC Instructional & Information

I am not saying it is the best option; all I am saying is that it is an option.

 

ok. lets debunk some myths about maestro...

is it more expensive than off the shelf tunes??

yes it is.

But...

an off the shelf tune is ONLY good for your ecu, the turbo THEY specify with the hardware THEY specify. this is awesome if you run the same exact setup on the same exact engine/ecu the tuner specifies. HOWEVER, if you want something different, the tune will be off. an off the shelf tune costs alot, like 4-600 dollars. thats a fine price if you will keep the same setup for the life of the car. but we all know things change.

maestro offers much, MUCH more than one simple tune. an $800(?, i forgot) investments yields a program that allows massive flexibility in tuning. you can run WHATEVER injector size you want, ANY maf (IF you want to run an maf [wideband cars only]) ANY turbo size you want. not to mention, there are already base file to get you running included in the program. this is an awesome option for audi and vw cars. essentially, it is a standalone system that allows ALL the controls of the stock ecu. not to mention, running different injectors and maf's is easy on maestro. you use the software to determine you setup. the original investment of $800 dollars is looking pretty good if you plan on changing even your intake tract.

as for other standalones, i wont lie. most other standalones systems will work just as good, if not better than maestro, ot to mention some are cheaper. however, maestro offers the use of the stock ecu. this means everything in you car will work still!

all in all, you are looking at it like this...

off the shelf tune- $500, you run what they tell you to how they tell you to and you cant change it

standalone- $XXXX for computer, plus needing to tune it. $XX an hour to tune it if you cant. easily $1000 plus investment in most cases

maestro- $800 (?), choose a base tune and show the community your logs to help you tune it. if you are really concerned, bring it in to get dyno tuned for $xx an hour like i did.

i could go far more into detail, but i need specific questions about maestro. its an awesome program. even if you dont do tuning yourself. it WILL pay for itself the first time you change your setup

 

I definitely wouldnt laugh at this people who actually end up carrying through with vr6 swaps usually end up spending around 8k.

I have been trying to figure out a way to do a "cheap" vr6 swap for years, but it just never works out. If you can fab all your own parts and have the time to fab it all up then sure you could do it for a wholeeee lot less.

But you'll need
motor mounts ($500)
adapter plate ($300)
flywheel ($500)
intake manifold ($450)
starter ($300)
Oil pan ($300)
Intake manifold ($300)
Exhaust manifold ($300)
Custom intercooler piping
custom downpipe
clutch
turbo
ecu
etc etc...

Once you get it all said and done you're looking at a pretty penny.


Another side comment, the reason most D series guys say a gtrs is a waste is because most of those guy run really low boost (8-15) so yes a turbo of that size would be pointless for them but we can run them at 25 psi no problem.


OP I suggest heading over to audizine and really just do your reading. Theres ~10 years of build threads over there with literally thousands of questions and answers about different turbo/engine set ups and a few really good builds going on right now.

 

Basically you hit all the keypoints that made me decide Maestro over the other options. I have even heard that the base file with Maestro ran better then some manufacturers tunes. In fairness though I have seen where people have gave up on Maestro and returned it.

There are some other options like Megasquirt which can be had for less then $400 but it is start from scratch setup and there are things that you would have to fix to use like COP's and AC but it can be done. I would not suggest this for anyone that does not have a good understanding for an ECU and how they work.

Too me the Maestro just seems like the best bang for the dollar.

Redline- I don't know where your looking but the cheapest tune I found for any turbo setup is the United tune and it was $499. It was for a K04. The GT28 tune used 630cc injectors, VR6 MAF, and cost $599. I can't see not paying the extra $200 for Maestro.

How well did your start up tune work?

 

The reason why most D series guys think a GT28RS is a waste is because they are cheap *** and the T3T4 setup has been done and tried and true. 75% of the people I built turbos for were D series guys and the **** they did and got by with would really blow your mind.

Jonbonejones- I will hook you up with the VR6 and then you prove me wrong. I am all for it. I agree with a lot of what you said but take the time and look at peoples builds thread and once the cost sinks you will come to the sam conclusion. If I was shitting money right now I would do it. That motor and GT35R or even a GT4202 would be golden. However at these levels you are outside the range of the drivetrain and trans. So even more money.

It would be hard to swap to the VR6 when the 1.8t can easily max out the drivetrain.

 

i just chose the 630cc base tune for awm ecu's. and it worked pretty damn well. i had some technical issues at first, no timing whatsoever, got it figured out, and it ripped hard. but i brought it to a tuner, and he said it was WAY lean, woudnt even do a full pull on the dyno at first. after he tuned it, it ran way rich in my opinion. the base tunes are good to get you running with the proper injecotrs, but that may be it. if you do logs and are happy, there may be no need to tune further

 

I'm really liking all of the information I'm getting here. I really appreciate all of the feedback guys. In the end I will go with what is most feasible for me. I would love to go with Maestro and tune my own car if I can. But worst case scenario I end up buying a 28rs kit or something similar and getting a tune for it. Even then I feel like that wouldn't even be a bad thing because that turbo has a lot of use out there and from what I've heard it is a great way to go.

 

I am sending you a PM zaboom. Check it out...

 

For the Vr6, i agree completely and am not trying to argue that its an axpensive swap. I just feel it can be done much much much less. Zandrew, just like you i can run and grab a 12v from the junkyard for about $100 bucks, ive always considered doing it, maybe why i went and pulled a vr6 a while ago. I found a better idea for the engine. I think its a great swap for the B5 its small and makes huge power after you turbo it. Based on the numbers meloman posted........assuming it all 034 motosport parts.........you can eliminate most of that by fabricating it yourself. I didn't realize the simple motor mounts they sell were $500!! I can see it getting out of hand quickly with prices like that.

Most insane vr6t build i have ever seen - http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=34882

still looks like he opened his wallet and paid someone to do it, aka bought not built.

If i were to swap the b5 its going to be an old AAN 5 banger turbo, while keeping the stock front rad support and everything stock.

 

So right now I was doing some looking around and am confused again.

So is the GT28RS going to require a whole new setup as far as manifolds and intake is concerned?

Trying to discern the differnce between the GTRS and the GT28RS