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Persistent oil leak with 30V V6

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  #1  
Old 09-12-2013 | 02:26 AM
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Default Persistent oil leak with 30V V6

Cutting to the chase, I've replaced the following on my 2001 30V V6:
  • Driver's side cam cover gasket and cam cap
  • Passenger's side cam cover gasket, cam cap, cam chain tensioner seal & half-moon seal
  • Crank case breather hose system
Both parts kits (gaskets & seals and breather hose) came from Blauparts.

The driver's side leak has stopped. The passenger's side leak (on the firewall side) is as bad -- if not worse -- than ever. Smokes like crazy when hot. Bottom side of the oil pan is covered in oil. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where the leak is coming from.

Some possibilities:
  • Improperly installed or damaged cam cover gasket (I've had the cam cover off three times and only replaced the gasket once). I don't see any damage or wear, and I torque the cam cover bolts down properly each time.
  • Damaged cam cover, though nothing is visible/obvious
  • Bad cam seals, though I don't think there are any on the firewall side on the passenger's side?
This is driving me nuts. Any ideas?

P.S. - I can't put the thing up on a lift; all I have is ramps.
 
  #2  
Old 09-12-2013 | 08:34 AM
Huskerbob's Avatar
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Originally Posted by boettger1
Cutting to the chase, I've replaced the following on my 2001 30V V6:
  • Driver's side cam cover gasket and cam cap
  • Passenger's side cam cover gasket, cam cap, cam chain tensioner seal & half-moon seal
  • Crank case breather hose system
Both parts kits (gaskets & seals and breather hose) came from Blauparts.

The driver's side leak has stopped. The passenger's side leak (on the firewall side) is as bad -- if not worse -- than ever. Smokes like crazy when hot. Bottom side of the oil pan is covered in oil. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where the leak is coming from.

Some possibilities:
  • Improperly installed or damaged cam cover gasket (I've had the cam cover off three times and only replaced the gasket once). I don't see any damage or wear, and I torque the cam cover bolts down properly each time.
  • Damaged cam cover, though nothing is visible/obvious
  • Bad cam seals, though I don't think there are any on the firewall side on the passenger's side?
This is driving me nuts. Any ideas?

P.S. - I can't put the thing up on a lift; all I have is ramps.
Improper installation of the cam cover gasket is my guess. Did you apply black RTV to the corners of the gasket and the mating surfaces and then let it cure for at least 24 hours before you lit the fire? If not I can almost guarantee that your problem is a leaky cam cover gasket at the rear. Pop the cover off and use a new gasket and black RTV on good clean surfaces and let it cure. Don't even think of trying to start it up for 24 hours.

If you got new cam seals etc. installed properly they are not prone to leaking.
 

Last edited by Huskerbob; 09-12-2013 at 08:36 AM. Reason: additional info and crappy spelling.
  #3  
Old 09-12-2013 | 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by boettger1
Passenger's side cam cover gasket, cam cap, cam chain tensioner seal & half-moon seal

Both parts kits (gaskets & seals and breather hose) came from Blauparts.
Really the only thing to do at this point is pull the passenger side valve cover again and inspect. I'm guessing that it is the cam chain gasket leaking since it sees oil pressure. Sometimes they are hard to get seated just right. It's also easy to have the valve cover gasket slip while tightening.

If you remove the air box, engine covers and plastic throttle body elbow, you should be able to get a good look down the back of the engine for your leak. A simple light and inspection mirror will help immensely.
 
  #4  
Old 09-12-2013 | 01:21 PM
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Getting that half moon seal and the tensioner gasket in place is pretty hard on the passenger side because its close to the firewall. I remember this procedure well. I was trying to seat the gasket properly.. then I dropped it. -__-

Spent a good hour looking for it.
 
  #5  
Old 09-12-2013 | 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamil`
Getting that half moon seal and the tensioner gasket in place is pretty hard on the passenger side because its close to the firewall. I remember this procedure well. I was trying to seat the gasket properly.. then I dropped it. -__-

Spent a good hour looking for it.
I went the hard way. Lifted the cams off. What fun! I was doing the timing belt at the time so already had the front off.
 
  #6  
Old 09-14-2013 | 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Huskerbob
Did you apply black RTV to the corners of the gasket and the mating surfaces
I did. Only the corners, and only the head-side (not the cap-side). Maybe not enough? Maybe too much? Maybe left an air bubble in there? RTV is sticky as hell and it's hard to be sure you've got it all the way down in the corner where you want it.

Originally Posted by Huskerbob
let it cure for at least 24 hours before you lit the fire?
The first time, no, though it didn't matter because I hadn't torqued the cover bolts down tight enough anyway. The second (and third) time, I left it alone for maybe 18 hours.

Originally Posted by Huskerbob
Pop the cover off and use a new gasket and black RTV on good clean surfaces and let it cure. Don't even think of trying to start it up for 24 hours.
I will do that.

Originally Posted by Huskerbob
If you got new cam seals etc. installed properly they are not prone to leaking.
The only thing I haven't done is the cam seals, which I really, really don't want to do.
 
  #7  
Old 09-14-2013 | 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bshusted
I'm guessing that it is the cam chain gasket leaking since it sees oil pressure. Sometimes they are hard to get seated just right. It's also easy to have the valve cover gasket slip while tightening.
It's possible, but the leak predates the tensioner gasket/half-moon seal changeout. Also, after an hour of fiddling, I do think I got it seated properly. However, since everything is coming off again anyway, I'll check it again.

Originally Posted by bshusted
If you remove the air box, engine covers and plastic throttle body elbow, you should be able to get a good look down the back of the engine for your leak. A simple light and inspection mirror will help immensely.
Yeah, you'd think so. I've had all that stuff and had my mirror-on-a-stick back there. I just can't see it. You'd think given the amount of oil on the oil pan, the leak would be glaringly obvious.
 
  #8  
Old 09-14-2013 | 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by boettger1

The only thing I haven't done is the cam seals, which I really, really don't want to do.
You have to do the cam seals. I assume you are talking about the half moons? Must do. They are leaking.
 
  #9  
Old 09-14-2013 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Huskerbob
You have to do the cam seals. I assume you are talking about the half moons? Must do. They are leaking.
+1

I realize my manual tranny is smaller, but I get a good look up the back of my engine from if I stick my head underneath toward the back of the tranny.
 
  #10  
Old 09-14-2013 | 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by boettger1
The only thing I haven't done is the cam seals, which I really, really don't want to do.
He said that he did the half moon seals with the cam chain tensioner gasket. I think that he's referring to the seals on the front of the engine for the exhaust and intake cams. The timing belt must be removed to replace the exhaust cam seal and is not going to solve since it's at the wrong end of the engine.

You said that you replaced the cam caps, I'm assuming that you're referring to the black plugs that go to the exhaust cams on the backs of the heads. If you have not replaced these, you should and they are easy to do.

How about the tensioner itself? I had one of the tensioners on my V8 fail where the black solenoid connects to the body of the tensioner. There is an o-ring in there that can leak. There are 2 torx screws that hold the solenoid to the body of the tensioner. With the engine running, check the base of the tensioner solenoid for seepage.

I know you don't want to think about this, but the only other source of oil at the back of the head I can think of is an oil vein that passes from the block to the head. This would mean that the head gasket needs to be replaced.
 
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