Wait a minute now. I am not saying they are the same thing but I am saying they have similiar characteristics. The K04 actually flows a bit more but uses a slightly smaller turbine inducer (50mm to the GT 53.9mm). Does that make a difference, yes. However not that significant. The GT2560R is not widely used on the 1.8t that I know of as most go with the GT2860RS which is slightly better. The main significance the turbine size has is how much psi the turbo can safely handle and how much flow they can handle. 95% of people simply look at the compressor map and make judgements based off of it but that is only half of the eqaution. The neat thing about turbos is that the turbine has got to be able to handle what the compressor makes and when calculating in the excess heat it takes to drive turbine. Turbos operate off of heat, not exhaust flow. The nozzle within the turbine housing is designed compress the exhaust flow lke a water hose nozzle does and aims the flow directly at the turbine and converts exhaust energy into mechanical energy that then drives the compressor. However if the exhaust flow was not super heated the turbo would not work.

WIth the K04 what makes it great also is its weakness, the turbine is designed for quick spool but the issue is that it is not designed to sustain high flow. However a lil clip of the turbine will help this issue greatly and delay peak boost as well as help lighten the rotating parts.

The reason why the K04 is not used though is that it has to be adapted. The flange on the MS3 is nothing like that of the VW K04. It uses and equal spaced 4 bolt pattern. I am making an adapter that will allow you to bolt the turbo directly to the stock manifold. The other benefits is that all the stock coolant and water lines bolt up. I do have to rotate the wastegate though and maybe make a custom adapter for it. This sounds difficult but its really not. I am going to do a detailed thread on the install. There will also need to have downpipe made.

Metalman- How are you running the 630cc injectors? Are you using a tune or simply just add the injectors to an upgraded ECU?

I currently have the Giac setup with PC16 injector upgrade but I don't think they would run my 525cc injectors without issues.

Redline- I did not know with Maestro you are limited to one ECU. Now it does not seem like nearly the value. What are some good places to find some modestly priced tunes?

I have nothing against any of yours posts. Sometimes though it seems that some of what you post contradicts other things you post. I am new to VW so bare with me. The ECU and tune is the only piece of the puzzle I am struggling with.

The MS is starting to look like a better option. I am going to contact DIY since they guided me before and see if they know a way to get the AC to run. Does anyone know the specifics of why it will not run properly?

I remember the day when running big injectors on 4 bangers required you to use low Z and even then they idled like ****. Injectors have come a long way....

 

your quote "Turbos operate off of heat, not exhaust flow."


of course they operate off of exhaust flow. a fluid moving spins the turbine. BUT, what causes exhaust flow? Temp change, Pressure change? Yep. I guess Heat is in there somewhere. PV=nRT. I'm sure you are a good mechanic.

 

The tune I'm running (United Motorsport Stage 3) was written specifically for Siemens 630cc injectors. As redline pointed out, the tune is basically mapped for the higher flowing injectors, and thus will adjust the duty cycle according to how much fuel they'll flow. This tune was flashed onto the stock ECU (actually a spare ECU I had).

As for your fueling: when I ran PC-16 with my FrankenTurbo kit, I basically ran out of fuel. Injector duty cycle would be maxed out from about 4000 RPM onwards (315cc @ 3bar). And if your turbo is meant to flow higher, you may be better off with a tune which is designed for the specific injectors you're running (or Maestro so you can input the injectors you're running).

Are you been intending to run your PC-16 tune with a piggyback?

To me this statement sounds like it needs a little TLC. Just for reference, my background is mechanical engineering (by trade and education) and I work for a company which designs/manufactures fans mostly for the defense and aerospace industry... and I'm the guy currently responsible for aerodynamics at my facility.

Getting to the point: a turbo will spin by exhaust flow, period. Exhaust flows because of thermal energy and pressure differential. The ideal gas law (PV=mRT) certainly doesn't apply because of such high temperatures and pressures (compressible flow I'd guess), but we can use it as a reference for logic. The temperature and pressure differential on either side of the turbine wheel will force rotation as the gases work their way toward the ambient environment. This is why we install high flowing exhaust systems: the less restriction there is on the high pressure/temperature exhaust gases, the faster they can reach ambient temperature/pressure. But you know that.

Just speculation here... on the AEB engine, when the AC clutch engages the ECU compensates for the extra drag by increasing the throttle angle of the drive-by-cable throttle body. If MS can't control the throttle body as the stock ECU does, then maybe the system doesn't work? Or maybe you'd have to put in some sort of relay to trigger the AC compressor clutch when turning the AC on through the climate controller.

 

under this premise i could throw my turbo in a fire and it would create boost. not happening
under this premise when i blow on my turbo it wouldnt spin. it does.

as far as the tune for your car goes and getting the a/c to work, you clearly didnt go through the link i gave you which addresses that issue. ill still stick with my origianl recommendation. go megasquirt. you said you have experience with it. you still use your stock ecu for stock functions. you just use megasquirt to run your motor. go back and read the link i gave you

 

My apologies for "attempting" to explain how the turbine functions and why the size of it plays a specific role. The turbine functions because of the flow of a higher pressure gradient to a lower pressure gradient but by adding in the element of heat you greatly increase its potential energy and minus the heat you will never get into the compressors effective efficiency range. Their first application was airplanes enigines to help compensate for loss of of air pressure due to altitude, specifically bombers that could be flown at higher altitudes so they could be out of range of ground fire. The turbine has to be designed in such a fashion that it will handle compressor flow as well as the expansion due to heat and not restrict flow and create excess pressure in the turbine nozzle that can not be effectively used creating pumping loss. The exducer size is on the turbine is very important as it becomes the restriction point. Realise that 3" exhaust helps as it allows the gas to re-expand post turbine but you are still creating funneling the gases through an orifice of 45mm opposed to 76mm.

Redline- By my premise you could not throw a turbo into a fire and it will make boost because you are not making use of its nozzle and directing any of the fires energy at the turbine and before you could make ample pressure to spin the turbine due to the fire it will simply spill back out through the path of least resistance into the atmosphere.

Yes blowing on the turbine will spin the turbine. Congrats. Now find a compressor that will operate at less then 1000 rpm's and you may have something going.


Now I read the first part of the link you posted. I will say it once again that MS is not the best option and is a very crude form tuning that works in a pinch. If it were so great why is that you don't see everyone running it? MS was designed for a cost conscious individual and in my opinion (that should be valued since I have actually used MS) is for people that want basic control of their fuel and igition or a starter setup so you don't throw so much coin into the setup. It may still work but there is options for other setups that will work more harmoniously and not require multiple changes to operate things like AC and the coils that I already have. You realise that making changes inside the MS requires you to solder? Its not the easiset thing in the world and common mistakes will cost you the entire setup.

My question is and still is is there any issues running a piggy back on a stock ECU or one with a PC16 upgrade? This what I want to know. Not why MS is a better option (which I don't see why it is). Are there any issues with running AEM FIC in general? I do not see how a one size fits all tune will be any better then running a piggy back. Nor do I see how MS will be better either since I can control the pulse width with it directly, simulate the O2, still have AC without further modifications, use my coils that I already have, still make use of the OBD2 diagnosis, swap in larger fuel injectors, datalog, and a **** ton of other things.

Now if the ECU will not work with the AEM then yes the other options make since.


FYI: I also have a background in engineering.... I try to simplify things especially when the discusion is beyond the scope of the topic.

 

You seem pretty set on the AEM FIC, I don't see a problem in using it, There are just better options for what your future plans may hold. How are you going to record data with the AEM? Does it come with software that allows you to see your maps and then change them?

 

Kinda what I was thinking. Why make a thread asking for advice and then argue with people about why their advice is wrong?

 

Ithink mega squirt is a fine application. Obviously its not as advanced as something pre built. but being an electronics engineer, i like soldering and playing wiht circut boards

 

The aem fic will datalog. Its not that I am dead set on it or have anything against anyone's suggestions. I asked specifically if there is any reason why it would not work and the topic has become so sidetracked that it has not been answered. There are reasons why I like the fic over the options but I need to know if it will work.

In life you are taught certain things that will work and won't work. This forum strongly believes that K04 will not make power above 250. However no one has tried one that will flow enough to make that awhp. This turbo will. Since I came up with the idea to safely and effectively max out the stock block its been hated on and some like it. I have asked specific questions and instead of them being answered I get do this or do that. I'm new to Audi. I need to figure the ecu and tune issue out. Since this k04 should spool fairly similar to the one I already have I should be ok with the pc16 tune but will need more fuel up top. I do not need to start from scratch. If the fic will work then I should be just fine.

The fic has 15x21 fuel tables that you can base off the internal map sensor. You can directly control the injectors. The work required with fic is much more simple is why I have specific interest in it.

I plan on adding 525cc injectors and "if" the fic will work all that is needed is to change injector size and watch duty cycle, afr, and add or subtract fuel. Once happy with afr then I can add timing. I also have j&s safeguard but I don't know if it will work with the 1.8t yet.

 

Trying to stay on point here: the AEB engine doesn't have a MAP sensor. Perhaps you mean MAF? Or would you add a MAP sensor?