the fact is going k04 has been beat to death to the point that great maps have already been made that you dont need to tune yourself. i am taking all things into consideration. maestro would be a better option if you were awm, but a k04 still wouldnt necessitate a tuning program like maestro. not to mention youd be able to find a k04 tuned maestro ecu for much cheaper than maestro or aem fic. not to mention there would be no tuning involved. i will admit maestro has a 440cc/stock maf basefile for aeb's, but that is most likely too large for a k04 and would have to be significantly changed for just a k04. there are far more basefiles available for wideband ecu's in maestro. but you dont need to listen to me. not like i have maestro or anything

 

You have it posted that you are a tech Guru but I am guessing that does not include an understanding of turbos (jus joking). I have been posting from my phone which sucks since I now have the Samsung Gallaxy S III and I just dug my lap top out to make this post.

You are obviously getting sucked in by the turbo nomenclature. K04 is simply a style of turbo. It is typically smaller turbos mostly designed for OEM's. By designaton as an OEM turbo they are mostly small by nature and designed for a specific range and nothing more. However just because it is a K04 does not mean that all K04 turbos are created equal.

Take these turbos for an example.

GT1560 http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/GT15compress.jpg

GT2560R (says GT28R but they are the same turbo) http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/gt28rcompress.gif


Both of these are from the same class of turbo being GT's so by your thought process both of these turbos should use the same tune? One flows 24 b min and the other flows 36 lb min. That is 12 lb min flow difference.

I chose these 2 turbos specifically as they closely relate to the K04 015 and K04 882. The GT1548 has a 37mm inducer and 48mm exducer. The GT2560R uses a 46.5mm exducer and 60mm exducer. In comparison the K04 015 uses a 38mm inducer and 51mm exducer. The K04 882 uses a 46.4mm inducer and 60mm exducer (including extended tips). One flows 24lb min and the other flows 38 lb min. 14 lb min is a very big difference, a 37% increase in flow actually. It actually does not stop there; the turbine in the K04 015 is 42mm ex and 46mm in, where the K04 882 is 45mm ex and 50mm in. The K04 015 is actually closest to a GT2052 (number 1 model) and the K04 882 is closest to the GT2560R. The Franken is 33lb min flow and has made 240awhp so if the K04 882 follows suit it should make 275awhp. If the K04 882 holds peak torque about 500 RPM longer it will surpass that number considerably.

My point is that you are only considering one thing about this turbo, and that is it being a K04. My point is that it is a very different K04 then any other. I am not guarenteeing it will make the hp but onestly I will be happy with 250awhp however I strongly feel that 270 is well within reach.

Back to my tuning dilema. I am only doing this setup to max out the potnetial of the stock block while I build my other block for more serious hp goals. This is why I was considering Maestro. I plan on buying an extra ECU and seeing if someone would be willing to flash it for me that has Maestro with a tune that is most compatible for the turbo I have.


In all honesty its not just about hp. I have a slew of other turbos I can use that would easily yield 300awhp. I have T3T4 46 trim, 57 trim, a 60-1 P trim, and a Precision SC62 with a ported cover. I also have GT2554, small 16G, TD04 19T (with a billet compressor somewhere for it) and even bigger turbos like T76 and a T88.

My overall goal with this is creating a setup that is fun to drive with excellent response, that does not cost an arm and a leg, easy to duplicate, and will make respectable and comparable hp to other setups costing considerably more. I will tell you though that it is more then possible to make well more then 300awhp with a K04 on pump gas, not E85. Of course the K04 would require some massaging and a bigger compressor retrofitted but it is perfectly plausible and not very hard if you are willing.



So is the Maestro the best fit for what I have planned? Honestly I do agree that trying a mAestro tune from someone would be the best bet but I would like for it to be from someone that would be willing to alter it a bit after I datalog.


(something about me still likes the aem fic idea though. I like taking things that should not work and getting them too....)

 

Interesting about the turbo. Can you please explain why people upgrade to the GT25 series turbo if a k04 is basically the same thing?

As for Maestro, Kompressed on Audizine seems to be a good guy, Chris just got his done, it should be a meastro tune. My question is how exactly do you plan to data log?

 

Just to throw another option out there, unrelated to Maestro or piggyback ECUs: there are base tunes you can get from companies like C2 Motorsports, United Motorsport, etc. which will work decently well with your setup. If you log the appropriate information you can send out those logs and tweak your tune. Though it sounds like you're more interested in self-tuning.

And FWIW: I run a 630cc tune on my FrankenTurbo setup. Been doing it for almost 9 months (daily driver). Sure it's not perfect but for a base tune (and being one-size-fits-all) it runs pretty well!

 

630s on the franken?????? seems a little big.

The only thing is, without maestro. How do you log and look at graphs and everything

 

This is exactly what I was going to say...


As for tuning, I think maestro is definitely the way to go. As others have mentioned it is not as easy and does not have the base maps that 2001+ cars get, but theres a few pre 2001 guys having great success on maestro.

I would suggest heading over to audizine and looking for more information, theres a few guys over there with maestro on AEB cars with great numbers. K0mpressed is great as others have mentioned, and aaronamerica is really good with maestro as well.

 

you can squabble about the k04 thing all you want but you started a thread asking for tuning solutions and which is best for your application. if you dont like my opinion ill stay out of the thread

I dont think you understand what maestro is. you cant just try a maestro tune from someone. the cable and the ecu are linked. there is no way getting around it. yeah i have maestro in my car, but its not like someone can send me their ecu and id be able to load it up. youd need to buy the program. for the olde cars, id say a an off the shelf tune would be a good option for any turbo less than a gt28series, your "monster" k04 included. you can go ahead and buy masestro, but the base maps suck for narrowband ecu's and youd have to do a lot of tuning yourself, or have someone else tune it. you could load someone else's map on your ecu, but good luck finding one close for your k04. so my initial recommendation stands: if your going maestro, stick in a wideband ecu and harness

 

Why do they seem big? Because I'll never come anywhere close to max. duty cycle with them? Siemens 630cc have an excellent spray pattern and atomization that works at lower duty cycles, and they are very smooth at idle. And this way I'll NEVER run out of fuel I think a better question is: Why wouldn't I run 630cc? Jeff at United Motorsport developed this tune to run from stock K03 to GT28+. A number of people have even run it on a K03 and experience better driveability than with the stock tune...

VAG-COM allows logging/graphing. It's pretty easy too.

 

I know my friend had 700s on his 300zx and that ******* thing ran rich as ****.

So essentialy you can run, 1200 injectors and not be rich if the tune is right?

 

pretty much. look at it this way. lost of people run 1000cc's on their tiny little 1.8 or 2.0's and they idle just fine and deliver the proper amount of fuel while out of boost at any rpm. what matters is the fueling tables need to be adjusted to properly deliver the correct amount of fuel for the application. any injector can be used the fueling just needs to be set up for it. it is easier when the injector is properly matched to the needs, but if he is running a franken on 630's with a properly adjusted fuel table and injector constant i dont see why it wouldnt work fine