LONG POST: Timing belt, Valve Cover Gaskets & Cam Seals, PCV hoses - DONE!!
#1
08-07-2012, 01:15 AM
LONG POST: Timing belt, Valve Cover Gaskets & Cam Seals, PCV hoses - DONE!!
* I DID IT! I finally did these maintenance jobs. I never worked on my b5 2.8 30v before other than oil changes. But thanks to this forum, youtube, and vagsearch.com I was able to get a boatload of information on these jobs on my B5 and a lot of know-how from others as well as watching how-to videos on youtube before tackling all this. Thanks everyone for your help and knowledge! I hope to repay the favor by posting what I learned doing this project and hope this post helps future DIYers.
* Parts for the valve cover gasket/cam seals-caps/tensioner gasket and pcv breather hose jobs were from blauparts.com. The instructions were so valuable on both projects especially for the valve gasket job because you have to remove the cams and tensioner to have clear access to the tensioner gasket and valley plug as well as the tensioner caps. The timing belt parts were from fcpgroton because of price, the belts are continental, and the water pump impeller is metal. The timing belt instructions from happywrenching.com was the main set I used along with a video on youtube. Snub mount came from ecstuning – a standard one. The snub mount is easy to replace once you have the front carrier swung to the side which is what I did and recommend to anyone who decides to the timing belt and/or valve gasket job. There’s so much room to work. It took about 2 hours to get the lock carrier off and swung out of the way.
* Things I learned that I don’t remember seeing online anywhere.
- Make sure you read as much as you can, find youtube videos, learn from other people's experiences. I spent about 4 weeks reading and watching about these 3 separate jobs. Bookmark webpages that you can refer to. Make your own set of instructions if you plan to combine these jobs and go over in your mind the procedures you're going to follow.
- Get proper tools for the jobs. Some people can do it without the tools, I wouldn’t do it that way even after having done the job already. The cam locking bar, crank lock pin, and fan pulley spanner wrench were awesome to have. You get the cam tensioner tool from blauparts. I believe I would've hit 24+ hours or worse, severely messed up the timing of the motor if I hadn’t had them. If you can manage to rent, borrow, or buy them, get 'em when you do the timing belt and valve gasket jobs. You'll need to rent or buy a 2- or 3- jaw puller to remove the cam sprockets.
- Get a blade scraper to get old gaskets and RCV seals off mating surfaces. My water pump was leaking because it looked like there was remnants of old gasket that failed to be cleaned off when the pump was replaced.
- Have a set of long allen sockets for the fan pulley bracket. There's a bolt behind the fan pulley that a standard length socket can't reach. Had to be creative with an allen key and crescent wrench to get the sucker out.
- I bought a mirror on a telescoping handle to see the back of the engine. It especially helped to make sure the gaskets didn't move when installing the valve covers. Came in handy more than once.
- I bought a flexible grabber claw that came with an LED attachment that was worth 100x what I paid for it to see dark areas. The LED even has a magnetic tip! It's a little lifesaver.
- Happywrenching.com instructions for the timing belt (as well as bumper and lock carrier removal) were pretty spot on. I could tell someone didn’t know to remove the power steering cooler and alternator cooling duct because the mounts were broken. Make sure you buy the crank pulley allen bolts to replace the old ones. You don't want them to break when you reinstall the pulley.
- The crank lock pin access hole is on the block behind the alternator on the driver's side. You can get to it with an extension, a u-joint adapter, and patience especially when installing it. If you look passed the oil filter behind the alternator from the front on the driver's side, you'll see it. It's hard to get to, but be patient. Have a socket extension and u-joint.
- I tried removing the bumper with the "pull/push towards the rear then pull out to the side" method but I'm a small guy and couldn't get enough leverage so I used a body/molding pry bar. I picked up a kit from Amazon for pretty cheap. Made it so much easier without worrying about scratching the fender.
- I couldn't get the valve covers off by lightly tapping them with a hammer. I had to carefully pry them with a screwdriver. If you do this you run the risk of scratching the mating surfaces. I spent too much time with a rubber mallet and the covers never budged. So I pried them loose at the top of the engine where oil is less likely to leak from.
- To replace the S PCV hose that runs under the throttle body and connects to another PCV hose at the rear of the engine, you have to remove a 5mm allen bolt to take out the throttle body. That bolt screws through the throttle body into an long 10mm fastener. Mine would turn along with the allen bolt until I spent too much time ratcheting the allen bolt. Held the 10mm with a wrench and removed the allen bolt. Wish I knew, it would've saved me a little time.
- There's a steel hose that runs on top of the passenger side valve cover that makes removing the cover almost impossible. There a 13mm or 16mm nut that holds it to the rear of the engine. If you remove that along with the 10mm bolt on top of the cover, it'll make removing the valve cover easier.
- You may be lucky and have your cam caps connected by a plastic rod so you can keep them in order. That was a nice surprise.
- I don't know how you get to torque the nuts of the driver side valve cover close to the fender. I just did mine by feel. 7lb-ft is used a lot throughout the car so you can sample the other nuts or bolts that are 7lb-ft and get pretty close. I tested on other nuts to make sure my sense of the torque was confirmed with the torque wrench.
- Note the timing marks on the cams as well as the orientation of the cam sensor ring and sprocket before removing them. If you have the engine at TDC, they line up nicely. 16 links between marks on the passenger side. 15.5 on the drivers'. If you don't have the cam lock bar, this is always your fallback. Don't worry about the cams suddenly rotating on you because of valve spring pressure like they did with mine when the cam sprocket was off!! I freaked out for a moment until I took a deep breath and thought it through. I had the cam bar and could rotate cams back into place as long as I count the teeth between timing marks. The cam is flatted on the sprocket end and the wing washers fit only one way (the piece the cam locking bar inserts into). So if you pay attention to those when assembling, you should be fine. That's why it's so important to have your engine at TDC when dealing with the timing components or valve train.
- The crankshaft pulley is notched and only fits one way. That gives a little piece of mind too.
- Use plastic or paper bowls or plates to keep your screws and nuts. Write on them to know where they came from or you'll forget where they go. I did read this somewhere online but it's worth mentioning.
- If you have the time, spread it out over two or three days, but if you don't have your energy drinks and coffee at the ready.
- When replacing the tensioner caps (the curve plastic guides the timing chains rides on) I found that one side of the cap favored being installed first. It just pops on. Put it on one side then pop on the other and your done. The last one didn't pop on no matter which side I put on first so I had to put more weight on it. I placed it on cardboard and leaned into it and it popped on.
- Be patient when installing the cams/tensioner on the passenger side. The tensioner is toward the rear and mine slipped out from its position between the cams and I had to redo it. It's good to have a second set of hands to help.
*Why did I decide to do this? I just bought this car and it was leaking coolant and oil and it would smoke. I didn't know if the timing belt was done and was worried one day it would break and cause head damage. I was quoted $650 for the timing belt and valve cover gasket jobs. I didn’t get a quote for the PCV work because I hadn't known about that being the cause for a lot of leaking gaskets until later. I would imagine it would've been $100 or so to do that job. So instead of paying labor for three separate jobs, I bought parts and tools, coveralls, dinners and lunches with my lady. Based on my researching - youtube, reading the forums, blauparts instructions, and looking at the engine bay, all three jobs looked related. You have to remove some PCV piping to get to the valve cover gaskets so why replace the PCV hoses first when you have to remove them again anyway. When you do the valve cover gasket kit job per the instructions from blauparts.com, you have to remove the timing belt first. So I opted to buy the parts and do everything myself in one shot and save money and time, but also know how and what was done to the car when the parts were replaced because I’m the one who did it.
* It took me 19 hours straight to complete the jobs. My original estimate was 12 hours. I needed the car done for work in two days and wanted a half a day at least to drive it around. I didn’t realize how involved the valve cover gasket and seals job was. I bought the kit which has the cam seals, cam caps, tensioner seals, and 4 tensioner caps. Maybe I could shave off 4 hours if I had to do it again now I’ve done the work. I also took my time with cleaning gasket surfaces for the water pump and valve gasket job.
* Lost only 1 thing! A washer for a sensor plate mounting screw at the top rear of the engine. Broke 2 hard plastic vacuum lines during the valve gasket work on the driver side, but was fixed with duct tape. Those suckers are brittle. Found broken plastic in 3 spots (passenger turn signal tab, power steering cooler mount bracket on the carrier corner, and another I haven't figured out yet. Probably from the alternator cooling duck. Broke a cam position sensor clip. The sensor is connected but it might be causing me a CEL (more later on that). Broke a piece of the lower timing belt cover when installing the fan pulley bracket (I got to lazy at 1:30AM to remove the crank pulley to pull the timing cover off.) I broke a washer hose t-connector when I tried to replace the headlight washer nozzle.
* Started right up with no CEL right after everything was said and done. Drove around for about an hour or so while looking for a Denny’s to eat dinner at 3AM Sunday morning. Slept. But now there's a CEL, but the car runs better than before all the work was done. Smoother engine and tranny. Lower idle RPM, no more oil leaks, smoke! No leaking coolant!
* Next projects - fix the headlight washer hose, find the cause of the CEL, new plugs and wires, new belly pan (mine is gone), replace the broken vacuum lines and lower timing cover, replace the alternator cooling duct, install the headlight washer cover, minor body work to remove scratches and scuffs. Oh and new wiper blades.
* Parts for the valve cover gasket/cam seals-caps/tensioner gasket and pcv breather hose jobs were from blauparts.com. The instructions were so valuable on both projects especially for the valve gasket job because you have to remove the cams and tensioner to have clear access to the tensioner gasket and valley plug as well as the tensioner caps. The timing belt parts were from fcpgroton because of price, the belts are continental, and the water pump impeller is metal. The timing belt instructions from happywrenching.com was the main set I used along with a video on youtube. Snub mount came from ecstuning – a standard one. The snub mount is easy to replace once you have the front carrier swung to the side which is what I did and recommend to anyone who decides to the timing belt and/or valve gasket job. There’s so much room to work. It took about 2 hours to get the lock carrier off and swung out of the way.
* Things I learned that I don’t remember seeing online anywhere.
- Make sure you read as much as you can, find youtube videos, learn from other people's experiences. I spent about 4 weeks reading and watching about these 3 separate jobs. Bookmark webpages that you can refer to. Make your own set of instructions if you plan to combine these jobs and go over in your mind the procedures you're going to follow.
- Get proper tools for the jobs. Some people can do it without the tools, I wouldn’t do it that way even after having done the job already. The cam locking bar, crank lock pin, and fan pulley spanner wrench were awesome to have. You get the cam tensioner tool from blauparts. I believe I would've hit 24+ hours or worse, severely messed up the timing of the motor if I hadn’t had them. If you can manage to rent, borrow, or buy them, get 'em when you do the timing belt and valve gasket jobs. You'll need to rent or buy a 2- or 3- jaw puller to remove the cam sprockets.
- Get a blade scraper to get old gaskets and RCV seals off mating surfaces. My water pump was leaking because it looked like there was remnants of old gasket that failed to be cleaned off when the pump was replaced.
- Have a set of long allen sockets for the fan pulley bracket. There's a bolt behind the fan pulley that a standard length socket can't reach. Had to be creative with an allen key and crescent wrench to get the sucker out.
- I bought a mirror on a telescoping handle to see the back of the engine. It especially helped to make sure the gaskets didn't move when installing the valve covers. Came in handy more than once.
- I bought a flexible grabber claw that came with an LED attachment that was worth 100x what I paid for it to see dark areas. The LED even has a magnetic tip! It's a little lifesaver.
- Happywrenching.com instructions for the timing belt (as well as bumper and lock carrier removal) were pretty spot on. I could tell someone didn’t know to remove the power steering cooler and alternator cooling duct because the mounts were broken. Make sure you buy the crank pulley allen bolts to replace the old ones. You don't want them to break when you reinstall the pulley.
- The crank lock pin access hole is on the block behind the alternator on the driver's side. You can get to it with an extension, a u-joint adapter, and patience especially when installing it. If you look passed the oil filter behind the alternator from the front on the driver's side, you'll see it. It's hard to get to, but be patient. Have a socket extension and u-joint.
- I tried removing the bumper with the "pull/push towards the rear then pull out to the side" method but I'm a small guy and couldn't get enough leverage so I used a body/molding pry bar. I picked up a kit from Amazon for pretty cheap. Made it so much easier without worrying about scratching the fender.
- I couldn't get the valve covers off by lightly tapping them with a hammer. I had to carefully pry them with a screwdriver. If you do this you run the risk of scratching the mating surfaces. I spent too much time with a rubber mallet and the covers never budged. So I pried them loose at the top of the engine where oil is less likely to leak from.
- To replace the S PCV hose that runs under the throttle body and connects to another PCV hose at the rear of the engine, you have to remove a 5mm allen bolt to take out the throttle body. That bolt screws through the throttle body into an long 10mm fastener. Mine would turn along with the allen bolt until I spent too much time ratcheting the allen bolt. Held the 10mm with a wrench and removed the allen bolt. Wish I knew, it would've saved me a little time.
- There's a steel hose that runs on top of the passenger side valve cover that makes removing the cover almost impossible. There a 13mm or 16mm nut that holds it to the rear of the engine. If you remove that along with the 10mm bolt on top of the cover, it'll make removing the valve cover easier.
- You may be lucky and have your cam caps connected by a plastic rod so you can keep them in order. That was a nice surprise.
- I don't know how you get to torque the nuts of the driver side valve cover close to the fender. I just did mine by feel. 7lb-ft is used a lot throughout the car so you can sample the other nuts or bolts that are 7lb-ft and get pretty close. I tested on other nuts to make sure my sense of the torque was confirmed with the torque wrench.
- Note the timing marks on the cams as well as the orientation of the cam sensor ring and sprocket before removing them. If you have the engine at TDC, they line up nicely. 16 links between marks on the passenger side. 15.5 on the drivers'. If you don't have the cam lock bar, this is always your fallback. Don't worry about the cams suddenly rotating on you because of valve spring pressure like they did with mine when the cam sprocket was off!! I freaked out for a moment until I took a deep breath and thought it through. I had the cam bar and could rotate cams back into place as long as I count the teeth between timing marks. The cam is flatted on the sprocket end and the wing washers fit only one way (the piece the cam locking bar inserts into). So if you pay attention to those when assembling, you should be fine. That's why it's so important to have your engine at TDC when dealing with the timing components or valve train.
- The crankshaft pulley is notched and only fits one way. That gives a little piece of mind too.
- Use plastic or paper bowls or plates to keep your screws and nuts. Write on them to know where they came from or you'll forget where they go. I did read this somewhere online but it's worth mentioning.
- If you have the time, spread it out over two or three days, but if you don't have your energy drinks and coffee at the ready.
- When replacing the tensioner caps (the curve plastic guides the timing chains rides on) I found that one side of the cap favored being installed first. It just pops on. Put it on one side then pop on the other and your done. The last one didn't pop on no matter which side I put on first so I had to put more weight on it. I placed it on cardboard and leaned into it and it popped on.
- Be patient when installing the cams/tensioner on the passenger side. The tensioner is toward the rear and mine slipped out from its position between the cams and I had to redo it. It's good to have a second set of hands to help.
*Why did I decide to do this? I just bought this car and it was leaking coolant and oil and it would smoke. I didn't know if the timing belt was done and was worried one day it would break and cause head damage. I was quoted $650 for the timing belt and valve cover gasket jobs. I didn’t get a quote for the PCV work because I hadn't known about that being the cause for a lot of leaking gaskets until later. I would imagine it would've been $100 or so to do that job. So instead of paying labor for three separate jobs, I bought parts and tools, coveralls, dinners and lunches with my lady. Based on my researching - youtube, reading the forums, blauparts instructions, and looking at the engine bay, all three jobs looked related. You have to remove some PCV piping to get to the valve cover gaskets so why replace the PCV hoses first when you have to remove them again anyway. When you do the valve cover gasket kit job per the instructions from blauparts.com, you have to remove the timing belt first. So I opted to buy the parts and do everything myself in one shot and save money and time, but also know how and what was done to the car when the parts were replaced because I’m the one who did it.
* It took me 19 hours straight to complete the jobs. My original estimate was 12 hours. I needed the car done for work in two days and wanted a half a day at least to drive it around. I didn’t realize how involved the valve cover gasket and seals job was. I bought the kit which has the cam seals, cam caps, tensioner seals, and 4 tensioner caps. Maybe I could shave off 4 hours if I had to do it again now I’ve done the work. I also took my time with cleaning gasket surfaces for the water pump and valve gasket job.
* Lost only 1 thing! A washer for a sensor plate mounting screw at the top rear of the engine. Broke 2 hard plastic vacuum lines during the valve gasket work on the driver side, but was fixed with duct tape. Those suckers are brittle. Found broken plastic in 3 spots (passenger turn signal tab, power steering cooler mount bracket on the carrier corner, and another I haven't figured out yet. Probably from the alternator cooling duck. Broke a cam position sensor clip. The sensor is connected but it might be causing me a CEL (more later on that). Broke a piece of the lower timing belt cover when installing the fan pulley bracket (I got to lazy at 1:30AM to remove the crank pulley to pull the timing cover off.) I broke a washer hose t-connector when I tried to replace the headlight washer nozzle.
* Started right up with no CEL right after everything was said and done. Drove around for about an hour or so while looking for a Denny’s to eat dinner at 3AM Sunday morning. Slept. But now there's a CEL, but the car runs better than before all the work was done. Smoother engine and tranny. Lower idle RPM, no more oil leaks, smoke! No leaking coolant!
* Next projects - fix the headlight washer hose, find the cause of the CEL, new plugs and wires, new belly pan (mine is gone), replace the broken vacuum lines and lower timing cover, replace the alternator cooling duct, install the headlight washer cover, minor body work to remove scratches and scuffs. Oh and new wiper blades.
#3
08-09-2012, 11:47 PM
One note to add... in addition to a fresh set of crankshaft pulley bolts (several of mine had rust on them, nice of Blauparts to include a handful for free in the TB kit I bought when I did mine a couple months ago)... if you intend to change out the crankshaft seal (included in the Blauparts TB kit) make sure you use a brand new crankshaft end bolt (not included in the kit) since that very large bolt is a "stretch to torque" bolt that will likely break if you attempt to re-use the old one. The instructions that come with the Blauparts kit do NOT mention this, and I think this is a big issue that they need to correct. The new bolt itself is only about $7 and would not significantly add to the price of the kit.
#5
08-16-2012, 09:25 PM
Blauparts includes the following Front Crankshaft Timing Belt Pulley Removal Service Bulletin in all 2.8L / 2.7L V6 timing belt kits.
The service bulletin contained in these kits reminds customer that they can purchase a reliable solution if the crank seal is leaking and or if the crank bolt is removed.
The service bulletin contained in these kits reminds customer that they can purchase a reliable solution if the crank seal is leaking and or if the crank bolt is removed.
I learned about the stretch-to-torque issue about the bolt, and the crank pulley sprocket locating tab issues from a how-to I found on the web.
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