Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
#51
04-02-2008, 11:46 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: 400HPA4
I'll have to dig up scans of dyno's but I have plenty. I cannot speak for the TT and Eliminators because the programming is not very refined.
The original poster is talking about a B5 A4 which may or may not have an AEB motor in it. The 71R eliminator setup on it makes about 330AWHP with high quality tuning like Eurodyne and 630cc injectors. You can run the upgraded ATP manifold or you can run a nicely ported an polished OEM manifold and get the same results.
I know that when we have built 2.0L TTs we typically use the APR Stage III++ (71R Motrorsport package) and put down about 390-400AWHP
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
The original poster is talking about a B5 A4 which may or may not have an AEB motor in it. The 71R eliminator setup on it makes about 330AWHP with high quality tuning like Eurodyne and 630cc injectors. You can run the upgraded ATP manifold or you can run a nicely ported an polished OEM manifold and get the same results.
I know that when we have built 2.0L TTs we typically use the APR Stage III++ (71R Motrorsport package) and put down about 390-400AWHP
I wouldnt use a APR kit. Not a fan of T25 based turbos and will run a tube manifold with most likelya 3082r or 3582r. Plans are for ~450whp on pump and meth.
and you didnt have to make your sig that small
#52
04-03-2008, 01:19 AM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
I totally agree about the .48 on the 50trim. I never said that you were going to make anywhere near that power. Transverse cars with stock engines are making 320whp with moderate boost levels on pump gas (22-24psi). But like you just said and i have said previously, you have to swap in a .63 to get more out of it. But you can get more out of a 50trim with a .63 than most are willing to put into it. Like i have said before, people just rather trade turbos than make the engine more efficient. It really is said and a plague on the VW/Audi community. But the3 biggest reason people like to run a 50trim are because they are cheap, make the most power on stock rods, and a nice gt30 series turbo can easily be swapped in. Its a great starter BT.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
#53
04-03-2008, 08:50 AM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
Thanks, i would love to see your dyno with mod list.
ORIGINAL: 400HPA4
I'll have to dig up scans of dyno's but I have plenty. I cannot speak for the TT and Eliminators because the programming is not very refined.
The original poster is talking about a B5 A4 which may or may not have an AEB motor in it. The 71R eliminator setup on it makes about 330AWHP with high quality tuning like Eurodyne and 630cc injectors. You can run the upgraded ATP manifold or you can run a nicely ported an polished OEM manifold and get the same results.
I know that when we have built 2.0L TTs we typically use the APR Stage III++ (71R Motrorsport package) and put down about 390-400AWHP
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
The original poster is talking about a B5 A4 which may or may not have an AEB motor in it. The 71R eliminator setup on it makes about 330AWHP with high quality tuning like Eurodyne and 630cc injectors. You can run the upgraded ATP manifold or you can run a nicely ported an polished OEM manifold and get the same results.
I know that when we have built 2.0L TTs we typically use the APR Stage III++ (71R Motrorsport package) and put down about 390-400AWHP
2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM 5 speed
POWER
~ATP 71R Eliminator
~ATP exhaust manifold
~EuroCode Tuning test pipe
~EuroCode Edition Samco/Neuspeed silicone TIP
~DTH custom intercooler
~Custom REVO programming
~Bosch 440cc injectors (flow matched, balanced)
~Bosch Motorsports fuel pump
~Thermal R&D 3" turbo back exhaust
~Forge 004 BOV
~Turbosmart eBoost electronic boost controller
CONTROL
STaSIS/Alcon 370 mm front brakes custom painted red
STaSIS/Alcon 310mm rear brakes
STaSIS high bias center differential
STaSIS limited slip rear differential
STaSIS/Koni coilovers (-2 camber, corner balanced)
EXTERIOR STYLING
~HRE 540r 19 x 8.5 front 19 x 9.5 rear, custom painted centers to match exterior, Dunlop Sport Maxx 235-35-19
~OEM Audi S4 rear bumper
~OEM Audi S-line front bumper
~DTH Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler
~DTH Carbon Fiber B and C Pillars
~OEM Audi S-line Satin Black Finish Upper and Lower Grills
INTERIOR STYLING
~OEM Audi RNS-E DVD based Navigation
~OEM Audi Bluetooth Interfacebox
~Dietz Video Integration
~OEM Audi S-line Aluminum Trim
~OEM Audi RS4 Pedal Set
~OEM Audi RS4 E-brake Handle
PERFORMANCE
~323 AWHP/327AWTQ
~12.853@107.50
#56
04-03-2008, 01:10 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: 400HPA4
The mod list is pretty long, let me see if I can remember everything.
2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM 5 speed
POWER
~ATP 71R Eliminator
~ATP exhaust manifold
~EuroCode Tuning test pipe
~EuroCode Edition Samco/Neuspeed silicone TIP
~DTH custom intercooler
~Custom REVO programming
~Bosch 440cc injectors (flow matched, balanced)
~Bosch Motorsports fuel pump
~Thermal R&D 3" turbo back exhaust
~Forge 004 BOV
~Turbosmart eBoost electronic boost controller
CONTROL
STaSIS/Alcon 370 mm front brakes custom painted red
STaSIS/Alcon 310mm rear brakes
STaSIS high bias center differential
STaSIS limited slip rear differential
STaSIS/Koni coilovers (-2 camber, corner balanced)
EXTERIOR STYLING
~HRE 540r 19 x 8.5 front 19 x 9.5 rear, custom painted centers to match exterior, Dunlop Sport Maxx 235-35-19
~OEM Audi S4 rear bumper
~OEM Audi S-line front bumper
~DTH Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler
~DTH Carbon Fiber B and C Pillars
~OEM Audi S-line Satin Black Finish Upper and Lower Grills
INTERIOR STYLING
~OEM Audi RNS-E DVD based Navigation
~OEM Audi Bluetooth Interfacebox
~Dietz Video Integration
~OEM Audi S-line Aluminum Trim
~OEM Audi RS4 Pedal Set
~OEM Audi RS4 E-brake Handle
PERFORMANCE
~323 AWHP/327AWTQ
~12.853@107.50
The mod list is pretty long, let me see if I can remember everything.
2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM 5 speed
POWER
~ATP 71R Eliminator
~ATP exhaust manifold
~EuroCode Tuning test pipe
~EuroCode Edition Samco/Neuspeed silicone TIP
~DTH custom intercooler
~Custom REVO programming
~Bosch 440cc injectors (flow matched, balanced)
~Bosch Motorsports fuel pump
~Thermal R&D 3" turbo back exhaust
~Forge 004 BOV
~Turbosmart eBoost electronic boost controller
CONTROL
STaSIS/Alcon 370 mm front brakes custom painted red
STaSIS/Alcon 310mm rear brakes
STaSIS high bias center differential
STaSIS limited slip rear differential
STaSIS/Koni coilovers (-2 camber, corner balanced)
EXTERIOR STYLING
~HRE 540r 19 x 8.5 front 19 x 9.5 rear, custom painted centers to match exterior, Dunlop Sport Maxx 235-35-19
~OEM Audi S4 rear bumper
~OEM Audi S-line front bumper
~DTH Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler
~DTH Carbon Fiber B and C Pillars
~OEM Audi S-line Satin Black Finish Upper and Lower Grills
INTERIOR STYLING
~OEM Audi RNS-E DVD based Navigation
~OEM Audi Bluetooth Interfacebox
~Dietz Video Integration
~OEM Audi S-line Aluminum Trim
~OEM Audi RS4 Pedal Set
~OEM Audi RS4 E-brake Handle
PERFORMANCE
~323 AWHP/327AWTQ
~12.853@107.50
ic the revo now
#57
04-03-2008, 01:41 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: 400HPA4
I would have to disagree with you on this one...
337AWHP on the dynojet, 323 on the Mustang, basically about 440CHP and I have the quarter mile time to back it up to. I used to run the ful blown GT28-RS and everything about the eliminator is better...
1) Quicker spool
2) More power
3) More torque
4) Emissions friendly
Unless ylou plan on going GT30-76R I would stick with the Elimnator setup, it is just way more efficient (unless of course you have $6K to drop on APR Stage III+)
I would have to disagree with you on this one...
337AWHP on the dynojet, 323 on the Mustang, basically about 440CHP and I have the quarter mile time to back it up to. I used to run the ful blown GT28-RS and everything about the eliminator is better...
1) Quicker spool
2) More power
3) More torque
4) Emissions friendly
Unless ylou plan on going GT30-76R I would stick with the Elimnator setup, it is just way more efficient (unless of course you have $6K to drop on APR Stage III+)
i'd really like to see that dyno sheet if you can find it
#58
04-03-2008, 01:51 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: chaos92287
so you like the eliminator BETTER than the full turbo? just doesn't seem right. so you went from a gt28rs to a 2871r elim? why wouldn't you have just gone for the full 2871r?
i'd really like to see that dyno sheet if you can find it
so you like the eliminator BETTER than the full turbo? just doesn't seem right. so you went from a gt28rs to a 2871r elim? why wouldn't you have just gone for the full 2871r?
i'd really like to see that dyno sheet if you can find it
#59
04-03-2008, 01:54 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
i can see a 71r elim being faster in the 1/4 vs the real 28rs because of the quicker spool, but in the high end the 28rs should be able to produce more power then then elim.
#60
04-03-2008, 05:40 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
Well the elim, GT28rs and GT2871r already push the stock A4 1.8 engineto its power limits so a 50 trim isn't going to make any more power on the stock bottom end since the limit is already around 350whp. This might be different on the TT 1.8 because it might have a slightly stronger bottom end to start with. This is exactly why most of the tuners are requesting upgraded rods on any A4 1.8t that is going to be running their GT28rs and GT2871r turbo kits.
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
I totally agree about the .48 on the 50trim. I never said that you were going to make anywhere near that power. Transverse cars with stock engines are making 320whp with moderate boost levels on pump gas (22-24psi). But like you just said and i have said previously, you have to swap in a .63 to get more out of it. But you can get more out of a 50trim with a .63 than most are willing to put into it. Like i have said before, people just rather trade turbos than make the engine more efficient. It really is said and a plague on the VW/Audi community. But the3 biggest reason people like to run a 50trim are because they are cheap, make the most power on stock rods, and a nice gt30 series turbo can easily be swapped in. Its a great starter BT.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
Less issues of bolts backing out on the elim vs using the ATP side mount manifold which is what he had with the full GT28rs. Plus he wanted a setup that look 100% stock if someone looked into the engine bay. The car ran faster with the elim 2871r then it did with the full GT28rs, I know because I have done most of the driving of gregs car at the drag strip along with a hand full of other A4's with BT setups. At this point the quickest B6 was running a GTrs elim kit on it and that has stood for a few years now, this record still stands even though there are B6 guys running BAT's now.
ORIGINAL: chaos92287
so you like the eliminator BETTER than the full turbo? just doesn't seem right. so you went from a gt28rs to a 2871r elim? why wouldn't you have just gone for the full 2871r?
i'd really like to see that dyno sheet if you can find it
so you like the eliminator BETTER than the full turbo? just doesn't seem right. so you went from a gt28rs to a 2871r elim? why wouldn't you have just gone for the full 2871r?
i'd really like to see that dyno sheet if you can find it
my problem with the 2871r elim is the compressor wheel seems way to big for the turbine wheel, and then there's the stock flange. no way a turbo with a smaller turbine wheel and inferior flange is gona outperform the real deal