Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
#42
04-02-2008, 07:55 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
I have already emailed the shop that put in my GIAC chip and GIACUSA on Monday, so far, no diceLet's hope they have a file and just don't check email often , haha....
#43
04-02-2008, 08:07 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
Best to go here and send Jeff Moss a email. He is a top dog when it comes to giac.
http://www.torque-factory.com/contact.htm
http://www.torque-factory.com/contact.htm
#44
04-02-2008, 09:18 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
So going to have to disagree here. First, people are talking about journal bearing 50trims and not DBB chras. But still, trying to compare a 2871r to a DBB 50trim is just bad. You are comparing a 450hp turbo to a 400hp turbo. Not to mention a journal bearing 50trim will hit the same 20psi by 3800-3900rpms with a slightly larger .48 turbine housing. Not only this, but it will make more power on stock internals compared to a 2871r.
Finally, how can you say a GTRS is a cheaper setup? when you get everything to run it "successfully", you are basically spending the same amount as a true gt28rs setup and have way more lag and far less power. Trying to make 300whp on a flange that is only good for just over 200whp, is just not smart.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
Thanks.
Also so you guys know, some of the T3 hybrid turbos can be ordered with a GT center section which will make it oil/water cooled. Bad thing is that at that point the turbo is just as expensive as a real GT turbo. Example, the T3/T04E 50/54/57 trim turbo can be ordered as a bushing for around $650 and a oil/water version for $1140, but that makes it more expensive then a GT3071rand without the GTwheels.
A well tuned GT2871r on a 1.8T with good tuning can hit 20psi by 3600 rpm.
If this is a budget build, the best option is to just go with a GTrs elim which I can get you for at a great price. The more you buy on one order the better the discounts get.
I also offer GT3071, GT3076 and GT35r Full-race BAT package setups at a nice discount and that discount gets better when buying that package along with a ER fmic.
Thanks.
Also so you guys know, some of the T3 hybrid turbos can be ordered with a GT center section which will make it oil/water cooled. Bad thing is that at that point the turbo is just as expensive as a real GT turbo. Example, the T3/T04E 50/54/57 trim turbo can be ordered as a bushing for around $650 and a oil/water version for $1140, but that makes it more expensive then a GT3071rand without the GTwheels.
A well tuned GT2871r on a 1.8T with good tuning can hit 20psi by 3600 rpm.
If this is a budget build, the best option is to just go with a GTrs elim which I can get you for at a great price. The more you buy on one order the better the discounts get.
I also offer GT3071, GT3076 and GT35r Full-race BAT package setups at a nice discount and that discount gets better when buying that package along with a ER fmic.
Finally, how can you say a GTRS is a cheaper setup? when you get everything to run it "successfully", you are basically spending the same amount as a true gt28rs setup and have way more lag and far less power. Trying to make 300whp on a flange that is only good for just over 200whp, is just not smart.
I think you mean a slightly "smaller" a/r seeing that the ".48" a/r you mention is about as small as they come. I wouldn't expect a .48 to make anywhere near 450hp, I know this for a fact seeing that a T3 turbo with a .48 a/r was used on a B6 and it couldn't even reach 300whp and 2 tuners tried.
Where are all these 450hp A4's running T3/T04 50 trims? They dont and all the people that have tried running them then switched over to GT turbos to try and make that power. Believe me I am no noob when it comes to making power with the A4, I have made 200+whp with a K03 and at this point making 600+whp with a GT35r. I will be looking to push that up to the 700whp some time this year. So I hope you dont think I am a noob because I am new to this site.
#45
04-02-2008, 09:50 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
How is the stock manifold only good for 200whp? I have made that much power on a K03 and there are plenty of peole running the GTrs Elims making 300+whp. A elim B5 ran 12.4's and I have ran 12.6's with the same turbo on a B6. The stock manifold has tiny runners that cant flow remotely that much air. But i was talking about the flange. It is way to small for trying to run a larger turbo than the gt2x and this can be seen by the lower tq numbers and slower spool. Thats nice yougot but it is far from optimum imho. Not to mentionthey are also using a upgraded stock manifold and that is where i was going. You will be then paying for stuff that you are not trying to replace. Much rather have a nice t25 manifold and flange to spool a RS at ~3200rpms like it should be and not laterfor only a few hundred more $'s.
I think you mean a slightly "smaller" a/r seeing that the ".48" a/r you mention is about as small as they come. I wouldn't expect a .48 to make anywhere near 450hp, I know this for a fact seeing that a T3 turbo with a .48 a/r was used on a B6 and it couldn't even reach 300whp and 2 tuners tried. Yes, when editing a miswrote what i meant. I meant smaller housing and larger compressor wheel.I saidnothing about a A4 making 450hp. What T3 are you talking about here, the t3s60? We were talking about a 50trim and now your saying it cant even make 300whp. A 50trim with a .48 can easily make 300-320awhp on a A4 and the .63 can make upwards of 350-360awhp. If you cant make those numbers, you arent trying hard enough. And BTW, i said the 50trim wasrated at 450hp and the 2871r at 400hp. Please reread.
Where are all these 450hp A4's running T3/T04 50 trims? Read above again.
They dont and all the people that have tried running them then switched over to GT turbos to try and make that power. No, the people did what ALL OTHER 1.8t people do, get a turbo, throw a bunch of boost at it and when they want more power, they get a larger turbo. If people actually maxed out a setup (head work, intake manifold, w/m, etc), they would be surprised how much a turbo can make with less boost throughout the powerband instead of getting larger turbos with more lag.
Believe me I am no noob when it comes to making power with the A4, I have made 200+whp with a K03 and at this point making 600+whp with a GT35r. I will be looking to push that up to the 700whp some time this year. So I hope you dont think I am a noob because I am new to this site.
Did i say you were a noob? I said i disagreed with some of what you were saying above. And yes, i knowwho you are.What you have done is huge and a nice bench mark.
How is the stock manifold only good for 200whp? I have made that much power on a K03 and there are plenty of peole running the GTrs Elims making 300+whp. A elim B5 ran 12.4's and I have ran 12.6's with the same turbo on a B6. The stock manifold has tiny runners that cant flow remotely that much air. But i was talking about the flange. It is way to small for trying to run a larger turbo than the gt2x and this can be seen by the lower tq numbers and slower spool. Thats nice yougot but it is far from optimum imho. Not to mentionthey are also using a upgraded stock manifold and that is where i was going. You will be then paying for stuff that you are not trying to replace. Much rather have a nice t25 manifold and flange to spool a RS at ~3200rpms like it should be and not laterfor only a few hundred more $'s.
I think you mean a slightly "smaller" a/r seeing that the ".48" a/r you mention is about as small as they come. I wouldn't expect a .48 to make anywhere near 450hp, I know this for a fact seeing that a T3 turbo with a .48 a/r was used on a B6 and it couldn't even reach 300whp and 2 tuners tried. Yes, when editing a miswrote what i meant. I meant smaller housing and larger compressor wheel.I saidnothing about a A4 making 450hp. What T3 are you talking about here, the t3s60? We were talking about a 50trim and now your saying it cant even make 300whp. A 50trim with a .48 can easily make 300-320awhp on a A4 and the .63 can make upwards of 350-360awhp. If you cant make those numbers, you arent trying hard enough. And BTW, i said the 50trim wasrated at 450hp and the 2871r at 400hp. Please reread.
Where are all these 450hp A4's running T3/T04 50 trims? Read above again.
They dont and all the people that have tried running them then switched over to GT turbos to try and make that power. No, the people did what ALL OTHER 1.8t people do, get a turbo, throw a bunch of boost at it and when they want more power, they get a larger turbo. If people actually maxed out a setup (head work, intake manifold, w/m, etc), they would be surprised how much a turbo can make with less boost throughout the powerband instead of getting larger turbos with more lag.
Believe me I am no noob when it comes to making power with the A4, I have made 200+whp with a K03 and at this point making 600+whp with a GT35r. I will be looking to push that up to the 700whp some time this year. So I hope you dont think I am a noob because I am new to this site.
Did i say you were a noob? I said i disagreed with some of what you were saying above. And yes, i knowwho you are.What you have done is huge and a nice bench mark.
#46
04-02-2008, 10:03 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
So going to have to disagree here. First, people are talking about journal bearing 50trims and not DBB chras. But still, trying to compare a 2871r to a DBB 50trim is just bad. You are comparing a 450hp turbo to a 400hp turbo. Not to mention a journal bearing 50trim will hit the same 20psi by 3800-3900rpms with a slightly larger .48 turbine housing. Not only this, but it will make more power on stock internals compared to a 2871r.
Finally, how can you say a GTRS is a cheaper setup? when you get everything to run it "successfully", you are basically spending the same amount as a true gt28rs setup and have way more lag and far less power. Trying to make 300whp on a flange that is only good for just over 200whp, is just not smart.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
Thanks.
Also so you guys know, some of the T3 hybrid turbos can be ordered with a GT center section which will make it oil/water cooled. Bad thing is that at that point the turbo is just as expensive as a real GT turbo. Example, the T3/T04E 50/54/57 trim turbo can be ordered as a bushing for around $650 and a oil/water version for $1140, but that makes it more expensive then a GT3071rand without the GTwheels.
A well tuned GT2871r on a 1.8T with good tuning can hit 20psi by 3600 rpm.
If this is a budget build, the best option is to just go with a GTrs elim which I can get you for at a great price. The more you buy on one order the better the discounts get.
I also offer GT3071, GT3076 and GT35r Full-race BAT package setups at a nice discount and that discount gets better when buying that package along with a ER fmic.
Thanks.
Also so you guys know, some of the T3 hybrid turbos can be ordered with a GT center section which will make it oil/water cooled. Bad thing is that at that point the turbo is just as expensive as a real GT turbo. Example, the T3/T04E 50/54/57 trim turbo can be ordered as a bushing for around $650 and a oil/water version for $1140, but that makes it more expensive then a GT3071rand without the GTwheels.
A well tuned GT2871r on a 1.8T with good tuning can hit 20psi by 3600 rpm.
If this is a budget build, the best option is to just go with a GTrs elim which I can get you for at a great price. The more you buy on one order the better the discounts get.
I also offer GT3071, GT3076 and GT35r Full-race BAT package setups at a nice discount and that discount gets better when buying that package along with a ER fmic.
Finally, how can you say a GTRS is a cheaper setup? when you get everything to run it "successfully", you are basically spending the same amount as a true gt28rs setup and have way more lag and far less power. Trying to make 300whp on a flange that is only good for just over 200whp, is just not smart.
337AWHP on the dynojet, 323 on the Mustang, basically about 440CHP and I have the quarter mile time to back it up to. I used to run the ful blown GT28-RS and everything about the eliminator is better...
1) Quicker spool
2) More power
3) More torque
4) Emissions friendly
Unless ylou plan on going GT30-76R I would stick with the Elimnator setup, it is just way more efficient (unless of course you have $6K to drop on APR Stage III+)
#47
04-02-2008, 10:07 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
and please fix your sig
#48
04-02-2008, 11:03 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
How is the stock manifold only good for 200whp? I have made that much power on a K03 and there are plenty of peole running the GTrs Elims making 300+whp. A elim B5 ran 12.4's and I have ran 12.6's with the same turbo on a B6. The stock manifold has tiny runners that cant flow remotely that much air. But i was talking about the flange. It is way to small for trying to run a larger turbo than the gt2x and this can be seen by the lower tq numbers and slower spool. Thats nice yougot but it is far from optimum imho. Not to mentionthey are also using a upgraded stock manifold and that is where i was going. You will be then paying for stuff that you are not trying to replace. Much rather have a nice t25 manifold and flange to spool a RS at ~3200rpms like it should be and not laterfor only a few hundred more $'s.
I think you mean a slightly "smaller" a/r seeing that the ".48" a/r you mention is about as small as they come. I wouldn't expect a .48 to make anywhere near 450hp, I know this for a fact seeing that a T3 turbo with a .48 a/r was used on a B6 and it couldn't even reach 300whp and 2 tuners tried. Yes, when editing a miswrote what i meant. I meant smaller housing and larger compressor wheel.I saidnothing about a A4 making 450hp. What T3 are you talking about here, the t3s60? We were talking about a 50trim and now your saying it cant even make 300whp. A 50trim with a .48 can easily make 300-320awhp on a A4 and the .63 can make upwards of 350-360awhp. If you cant make those numbers, you arent trying hard enough. And BTW, i said the 50trim wasrated at 450hp and the 2871r at 400hp. Please reread.
Where are all these 450hp A4's running T3/T04 50 trims? Read above again.
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
How is the stock manifold only good for 200whp? I have made that much power on a K03 and there are plenty of peole running the GTrs Elims making 300+whp. A elim B5 ran 12.4's and I have ran 12.6's with the same turbo on a B6. The stock manifold has tiny runners that cant flow remotely that much air. But i was talking about the flange. It is way to small for trying to run a larger turbo than the gt2x and this can be seen by the lower tq numbers and slower spool. Thats nice yougot but it is far from optimum imho. Not to mentionthey are also using a upgraded stock manifold and that is where i was going. You will be then paying for stuff that you are not trying to replace. Much rather have a nice t25 manifold and flange to spool a RS at ~3200rpms like it should be and not laterfor only a few hundred more $'s.
I think you mean a slightly "smaller" a/r seeing that the ".48" a/r you mention is about as small as they come. I wouldn't expect a .48 to make anywhere near 450hp, I know this for a fact seeing that a T3 turbo with a .48 a/r was used on a B6 and it couldn't even reach 300whp and 2 tuners tried. Yes, when editing a miswrote what i meant. I meant smaller housing and larger compressor wheel.I saidnothing about a A4 making 450hp. What T3 are you talking about here, the t3s60? We were talking about a 50trim and now your saying it cant even make 300whp. A 50trim with a .48 can easily make 300-320awhp on a A4 and the .63 can make upwards of 350-360awhp. If you cant make those numbers, you arent trying hard enough. And BTW, i said the 50trim wasrated at 450hp and the 2871r at 400hp. Please reread.
Where are all these 450hp A4's running T3/T04 50 trims? Read above again.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
#49
04-02-2008, 11:05 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
You have a dyno? Everything i have seen based on the elims shows the opposite. The longitudes seem to have a better result than the transverse when it comes to elims but still have yet to see anything making it worth it. Ill admit, i dont venture to AZ since the TT section sucks and dont have a 1.8t section.
and please fix your sig
The original poster is talking about a B5 A4 which may or may not have an AEB motor in it. The 71R eliminator setup on it makes about 330AWHP with high quality tuning like Eurodyne and 630cc injectors. You can run the upgraded ATP manifold or you can run a nicely ported an polished OEM manifold and get the same results.
I know that when we have built 2.0L TTs we typically use the APR Stage III++ (71R Motrorsport package) and put down about 390-400AWHP
#50
04-02-2008, 11:40 PM
RE: Decided to go BT .... t3s60 vs gt28r vs gt28rs
ORIGINAL: Mike@DTH
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.
First off the T3/T4E 50 trim has a max rating of 450hp, that doesn't mean the .48 a/r version is going to make anywhere near that power seeing that they are talking about the largest a/r version of that turbo. See the thing is that you cant just take at turbo with a set rating and expect it to make that power on the A4, what people have actually made is all that counts and I have seen the results of that turbo used on a B6 and the results were no where near what they thought the tubro would make. The problem is that a .48 T3 exhaust housing is going to choke very quickly causing less power to be made.
Like I said plenty of B5 owners have tried running this size turbo, they liked what it did but it just didn't make the power they expected.
I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a 50 trim turbo seeing that I am here to get the customers what they want for a great price, but at this point my best sellers are the Elims and my #1 seller is the GT3071/GT3076 setups. Just in the last 3 months I have already sold 5 of them and most of those were part of a BAT hardware package.