Big Turbo: Best bang for buck
#31
02-15-2013, 06:18 PM
#32
02-15-2013, 07:26 PM
I respect the fact that you have been there with your A4 but you are sir an *** hole and I am sorry to state this but you are not the end all for information especially regarding turbos. First off the reason the customer went to the CT5558 was because a person using their car for the track was. It was on a B16 and I highly suggested not too since as I clearly stated (maybe your reading comprehension is rusty) he was not going to use it in its designed application. He only went back to the 57 trim since he already had it. I actually suggested T3T4 50 trim with a billet compressor and stage 2 turbine. There is nothing wrong with the stated turbo. My point of emphasis which I guess flew over your head was that you need to buy a turbo to match your design intention. Not buy something half witted.
Now second, the machine shop I worked for sourced their parts from a supplier in the US. That supplier ALSO supplies parts for Turbonetics, Precison, and COMP. These are direct replacement parts made to the same specification as Garrett parts. You can literally take Comp 57 trim compressor and swap it in a Garrett, Turbonetics, or Precision and even a Master power which is madein Brazil.
Go ahead and call whomever. Once you do you will realize it is not a GUESS, it is FACT.
In all honesty I have no clue as to why you are so hurt by it. There are several companies that do this. Some that do it simply for profit, and some that do it since their products qality does not suffer and it allows them to market a more cost conscience product that anyone can afford. Eagle does it with their. Even companies like Starrett does it. Blox has done it from the start.
This is not misinformation. It is fact.
Also the 60-1, or what precision calls their 6031e is a turd of turbo. Its compressor design was never intended for a performance application. Look at its fin angle and you will realize (if you know anything at all about turbos) that it was designed for low boost applications. It is one of the worst turbos for performance oriented specification. Also I clearly stated 57 trim, not 50 trim. Of the T04E compressors the 50 trim is my favorite as the exducer is slightly bigger then the others which widens the compressor range. There is also a Super 50 trim but it uses a much larger exducer and is bit difficult to spool. The 50 trim has excellent flow capabilites and spools excellent in comparison to its potential.
Now to make this abundantly clear, I have nothing against Comp turbos. They make a fine product and some of their proprietary items are outstanding units. However they, just like precison and turbonetics started by selling Garrett knock offs.
Now second, the machine shop I worked for sourced their parts from a supplier in the US. That supplier ALSO supplies parts for Turbonetics, Precison, and COMP. These are direct replacement parts made to the same specification as Garrett parts. You can literally take Comp 57 trim compressor and swap it in a Garrett, Turbonetics, or Precision and even a Master power which is madein Brazil.
Go ahead and call whomever. Once you do you will realize it is not a GUESS, it is FACT.
In all honesty I have no clue as to why you are so hurt by it. There are several companies that do this. Some that do it simply for profit, and some that do it since their products qality does not suffer and it allows them to market a more cost conscience product that anyone can afford. Eagle does it with their. Even companies like Starrett does it. Blox has done it from the start.
This is not misinformation. It is fact.
Also the 60-1, or what precision calls their 6031e is a turd of turbo. Its compressor design was never intended for a performance application. Look at its fin angle and you will realize (if you know anything at all about turbos) that it was designed for low boost applications. It is one of the worst turbos for performance oriented specification. Also I clearly stated 57 trim, not 50 trim. Of the T04E compressors the 50 trim is my favorite as the exducer is slightly bigger then the others which widens the compressor range. There is also a Super 50 trim but it uses a much larger exducer and is bit difficult to spool. The 50 trim has excellent flow capabilites and spools excellent in comparison to its potential.
Now to make this abundantly clear, I have nothing against Comp turbos. They make a fine product and some of their proprietary items are outstanding units. However they, just like precison and turbonetics started by selling Garrett knock offs.
You say it like it means something or like I give a rats *** how you feel about me. Get over it.
No **** you buy the right size turbo for the application which is what I have been saying for years and what I tell everyone on the forums and what I do every day seeing I am in the business of selling turbos.
No you just assume that supplier was selling parts to everyone else, but other then that you have no proof seeing you didn't actually work for that company. When I mentioned what you said about CT buying China parts for their turbos the guys at CT couldn't stop laughing and saying what a joke. You can tell me and everyone what exactly Comp Turbo uses when you work there, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
The funny thing is you keep saying everyone is just making copy's of the Garrett turbos when the fact is everyone moved beyond what Garrett was making seeing they went way too long with any changes and had to start doing what everyone else was doing just to keep up. This is why they use a 11 blade wheel that someone else started using first, they also went ETT which as everyone knows BW started doing on their S line years ago.
#34
02-15-2013, 11:00 PM
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#35
02-15-2013, 11:43 PM
Oh wow name calling on the internet, you must be one tough guy. lol
You say it like it means something or like I give a rats *** how you feel about me. Get over it.
No **** you buy the right size turbo for the application which is what I have been saying for years and what I tell everyone on the forums and what I do every day seeing I am in the business of selling turbos.
No you just assume that supplier was selling parts to everyone else, but other then that you have no proof seeing you didn't actually work for that company. When I mentioned what you said about CT buying China parts for their turbos the guys at CT couldn't stop laughing and saying what a joke. You can tell me and everyone what exactly Comp Turbo uses when you work there, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
The funny thing is you keep saying everyone is just making copy's of the Garrett turbos when the fact is everyone moved beyond what Garrett was making seeing they went way too long with any changes and had to start doing what everyone else was doing just to keep up. This is why they use a 11 blade wheel that someone else started using first, they also went ETT which as everyone knows BW started doing on their S line years ago.
You say it like it means something or like I give a rats *** how you feel about me. Get over it.
No **** you buy the right size turbo for the application which is what I have been saying for years and what I tell everyone on the forums and what I do every day seeing I am in the business of selling turbos.
No you just assume that supplier was selling parts to everyone else, but other then that you have no proof seeing you didn't actually work for that company. When I mentioned what you said about CT buying China parts for their turbos the guys at CT couldn't stop laughing and saying what a joke. You can tell me and everyone what exactly Comp Turbo uses when you work there, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
The funny thing is you keep saying everyone is just making copy's of the Garrett turbos when the fact is everyone moved beyond what Garrett was making seeing they went way too long with any changes and had to start doing what everyone else was doing just to keep up. This is why they use a 11 blade wheel that someone else started using first, they also went ETT which as everyone knows BW started doing on their S line years ago.
The cost of material is relatively nothing when it comes to manufacturing. The labor is what breaks the bank. Where is the cheapest labor with specialized tooling??? Considering the average Billet compressor takes over an hour to manufacture, in the US an hour of CNC labor costs $100. The compressor is just one small part of a turbo. The fact that the parts are identical 100% from Comp and the China pieces I have used when I rebuilt Comp with my own hands.
Now one more thing; If you go on their website you will find a **** ton of pretty pictures, contact info, etc. Do you see anywhere on their site where they boast how it is manufactured in the USA??? I sure the hell didn't and typically that is something you want buyers to know.
Also take a close up picture of one of their turbines if you don't mind... Then compare it too the one furtherest to the right in this picture:
I am sure you will see some uncanny similarities. But hey what do I know? Its not like I haven't torn several of them apart and rebuilt them in about every fashion known to man.
One last thing, when you hold the parts in your hands and notice the tooling marks that are EXACTLY the same it is not an assumption. It is a fact. Tooling marks and process can not be FAKED and on areas of that said part that WILL NEVER be seen by the public it would make no point to be FAKED.
Last edited by zandrew; 02-15-2013 at 11:48 PM.
#36
02-16-2013, 02:39 AM
OP: you are not going to be able to find a cheap OTS kit unless it's used with lots of mileage on the turbo. 300chp is pretty easy from a stock motor 1.8t and the frankenturbo is the cheapest way but you will definitely need a custom tune to get to 300chp. you are thinking that frankenturbo is a company like APR that has these bolt on kits made for you but no, frankenturbo is mostly stictly turbo related business. i highly suggest you use the search function to find some more information before you ask anymore questions because this topic has been covered over and over and over and over
#37
02-16-2013, 10:43 AM
Does anyone see this guy as being the new Esandes? And how many ways are there to rebuild a turbo? Can I rebuild mine for more "WHHOOOOSSHH" sound?
#38
02-16-2013, 02:10 PM
I am going say another thing regarding this topic; Ringer sales the turbos. You are distributor and it is nice you use there product. However do you service their product? I am seriously doubting it. I have serviced their product (only journal bearings setups) and since I have replaced their parts with the EXACT parts that came out of them I would know what the **** I am talking about. This is not a assumption. Its first hand knowledge. If I buy a Chinese Rolex and Swiss Rolex (hell some "Swiss" watch making compaines are importing parts and use the minimum allowed by Swiss government to call it Swiss) they are both Rolex's right? The fakes are so good now that the only way to tell is open them up and look at the insides and you can still be foiled. So lets say you buy a Rolex and suspect it to be a fake. Are you going to take it to a dealer and ask them if its fake or are you going to take it to someone that has had them apart and knows the ins and outs of a real piece? Hmmm......
Besides I have clearly stated upteenth time the fact that they use parts manufactured in China is not a big deal. The problem is that most are affiliating it with Egay turdblos and they are not the same parts at all. These are quality made parts in factories that meet Iso 9001 or whatever specifications they are using now to entrust that each piece is made with the same detail and care as the one before it. It also states that each piece will be the same no matter what factory it is made in if there is multiple factories. For you to have this certification of manufacturing process you have to be able to track the parts origin all the way to mine the metal was sourced from to the factory it was forged at and down to the process that each worker uses to make it. There are **** ton of manufacturers that do this. Eagle, Scat, Precision, Turbonetics, Comp, Starrett (actually has their own factory there), Brian Crower, Blox, alot of clutchs are made their as well (more specifically in Taiwan), Lunati, damn there is so many. They are kind of in between a rock and hard place with this since if they don't manufacture parts there someone else will simply copy what they are doing and make the same **** their for a lot less. I am sure if manufacturers could buy USA made parts for an equivalent price they would BUT the Labor cost here in the US is rediculous and since Labor is 80% or better of the cost of an item its only natural to go where Labor is the cheapest. Guess where that is???
You can believe or not. I really don't give a **** but if you will take the time and do a lil research which you have not done you will figure out I am right. Matter of fact I have an email regarding Precision entry line somewhere where they clearly stated the majority of the parts are manufactured in China specifically for the stated reasons. Sorry its the truth; trust me I wish the US would produce what it consumes but free trade donkey raped us and only made the rich richer and the poor poorer. Its called capitalism. Welcome to the NEW USA
Last edited by zandrew; 02-16-2013 at 02:30 PM.
#39
02-16-2013, 02:17 PM
Here is nice thread posted elsewhere on the internet. I am sure you will find it a good read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtech
I work at Garrett Turbos, now called Honeywell Turbo Technologies which there so proud of. When Cliff Garrett Owned Garrett He used to brown bag his lunch everyday and cared for a quality Product. If he knew what Honeywell has done now he would turn over in his grave. Honeywell bought Garrett In 1998 or 1999. After this they opened up a turbo testing lab in shanghai China and quickly moved there turbo overhaul to Mexicali Mexico, quickly after Garrett overhaul went belly-up. So they moved there whole production to Mexicali Mexico, as if that first failure was not a sign.
Garrett Turbos made a quality product for a fair price. A turbo is a precision instrument. Garrett turbos was part of Garrett Air Research (on 190th st. In Torrance ca.) Where they have a huge facility designing turbine engines, and so on. Most of the senior technicians in our main turbo facility (Lomita Blvd Torrance ca) came from our air research. If you’re building jet engines a turbo is not all that difficult. Well Cliff Garrett dies. At that time ALL production of Garrett Turbos was at Lomita Torrance ca. Also all engineering and research was there as well. After we were bought and production was sent to Mexico to save costs. Our production numbers doubled. And cost was cut in half our failure rate tripled. Well who cares Honeywell is making money and lots of it. Turbos are considered Honeywell’s golden egg. They feel that turbos are going to take over big. Which it already has in the diesel market. We make ford diesel turbos, daf, Chevrolet, some Audi, vw, fiat, Perkins. Millions of turbos. And there now all coming from china and Mexico. Well up until lately the company figured if the product was designed in the US and assembled in Mexico we would be ok. Well to further there profit and **** the customer once again....the LAST of what makes turbo American leaves in January 2011. We will close the doors to the Torrance Lab. In Torrance we did all our racing turbos (wrc stuff, Audi racing etc..) then in the garret garage we did the turbos you people buy for your Subaru’s. Actually I take that back. They take turbos that were made on a production line somewhere else in the world, and change a couple of parts on a bench in Torrance (wheels, housing..etc) and send it to you the customer saying it was made in the us.....no it was not it was just repackaged and altered a little. Well as of Jan 2011 all your turbos will be made in Mexico or china or Czech Republic. This is the last Garrett facility in the United States.
We have huge law suits pending due to turbo failures. GM is probably going to leave us.... ford has already sued us. Caterpillar has one of the largest recalls in garret history in the process. Our name is becoming ****. The last few VERY smart guys left in the company are being fired to save costs, but see our profit is already good.....they just want more. Please don’t spend 1500$ on a gt35r. Now that it’s costing Honeywell less to build turbos do you think you will see a smaller bill when you order there product? NO!. They are going to charge you even more for even less. There are countless procedures that are being terminated everyday that made our turbos THE BEST. They keep cutting corner after corner. Did you know that we shave metal off our turbine and compressor housings until they are at the EXTREME minimum needed to contain in the event of failure they are shaving every nickel off the cost of a turbo. Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I won’t dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.
Do not buy these turbos. BorgWarner and mitsu are trying there best to compete with us making a quality product. Honeywell is using its big name to back junky turbos Like Toyota is starting to do. I guarantee in the next 8 months you will see a huge decline in quality. All designing and production is in CHINA AND MEXICO. Honeywell is taking back all there benefits they used to supply us with as employees. That way when they lay us off its as cheap as possible. Instead of saying "Well after we take a hit laying those people off we will make tons" they are just taking back all there benefits so they walk away clean and clear. We used to get a severance package. Which they just took away. One of the head engineers involved in the t3 project. (Designing the first t3) he is still with our company. he was supposed to get 44 weeks of pay if he ever got layed off (30 days and 1 week for every year with the company. 40 years with the company)Due to the new Honeywell rules he gets only 16 weeks pay they stole all that pack after promising it to him for 40 years. My fingers and about to fall off typing all this and I am heated so I don’t care about grammar I’m concerned about you people not supporting a **** company. Take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you will get what your money pays for. Have a nice day and don’t forget if you hear the name HTT Honeywell Turbo Technologies Stay away
(They still use the garret stamp on the turbos)
quoted from another forum I frequent
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtech
I work at Garrett Turbos, now called Honeywell Turbo Technologies which there so proud of. When Cliff Garrett Owned Garrett He used to brown bag his lunch everyday and cared for a quality Product. If he knew what Honeywell has done now he would turn over in his grave. Honeywell bought Garrett In 1998 or 1999. After this they opened up a turbo testing lab in shanghai China and quickly moved there turbo overhaul to Mexicali Mexico, quickly after Garrett overhaul went belly-up. So they moved there whole production to Mexicali Mexico, as if that first failure was not a sign.
Garrett Turbos made a quality product for a fair price. A turbo is a precision instrument. Garrett turbos was part of Garrett Air Research (on 190th st. In Torrance ca.) Where they have a huge facility designing turbine engines, and so on. Most of the senior technicians in our main turbo facility (Lomita Blvd Torrance ca) came from our air research. If you’re building jet engines a turbo is not all that difficult. Well Cliff Garrett dies. At that time ALL production of Garrett Turbos was at Lomita Torrance ca. Also all engineering and research was there as well. After we were bought and production was sent to Mexico to save costs. Our production numbers doubled. And cost was cut in half our failure rate tripled. Well who cares Honeywell is making money and lots of it. Turbos are considered Honeywell’s golden egg. They feel that turbos are going to take over big. Which it already has in the diesel market. We make ford diesel turbos, daf, Chevrolet, some Audi, vw, fiat, Perkins. Millions of turbos. And there now all coming from china and Mexico. Well up until lately the company figured if the product was designed in the US and assembled in Mexico we would be ok. Well to further there profit and **** the customer once again....the LAST of what makes turbo American leaves in January 2011. We will close the doors to the Torrance Lab. In Torrance we did all our racing turbos (wrc stuff, Audi racing etc..) then in the garret garage we did the turbos you people buy for your Subaru’s. Actually I take that back. They take turbos that were made on a production line somewhere else in the world, and change a couple of parts on a bench in Torrance (wheels, housing..etc) and send it to you the customer saying it was made in the us.....no it was not it was just repackaged and altered a little. Well as of Jan 2011 all your turbos will be made in Mexico or china or Czech Republic. This is the last Garrett facility in the United States.
We have huge law suits pending due to turbo failures. GM is probably going to leave us.... ford has already sued us. Caterpillar has one of the largest recalls in garret history in the process. Our name is becoming ****. The last few VERY smart guys left in the company are being fired to save costs, but see our profit is already good.....they just want more. Please don’t spend 1500$ on a gt35r. Now that it’s costing Honeywell less to build turbos do you think you will see a smaller bill when you order there product? NO!. They are going to charge you even more for even less. There are countless procedures that are being terminated everyday that made our turbos THE BEST. They keep cutting corner after corner. Did you know that we shave metal off our turbine and compressor housings until they are at the EXTREME minimum needed to contain in the event of failure they are shaving every nickel off the cost of a turbo. Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I won’t dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.
Do not buy these turbos. BorgWarner and mitsu are trying there best to compete with us making a quality product. Honeywell is using its big name to back junky turbos Like Toyota is starting to do. I guarantee in the next 8 months you will see a huge decline in quality. All designing and production is in CHINA AND MEXICO. Honeywell is taking back all there benefits they used to supply us with as employees. That way when they lay us off its as cheap as possible. Instead of saying "Well after we take a hit laying those people off we will make tons" they are just taking back all there benefits so they walk away clean and clear. We used to get a severance package. Which they just took away. One of the head engineers involved in the t3 project. (Designing the first t3) he is still with our company. he was supposed to get 44 weeks of pay if he ever got layed off (30 days and 1 week for every year with the company. 40 years with the company)Due to the new Honeywell rules he gets only 16 weeks pay they stole all that pack after promising it to him for 40 years. My fingers and about to fall off typing all this and I am heated so I don’t care about grammar I’m concerned about you people not supporting a **** company. Take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you will get what your money pays for. Have a nice day and don’t forget if you hear the name HTT Honeywell Turbo Technologies Stay away
(They still use the garret stamp on the turbos)
quoted from another forum I frequent
#40
02-16-2013, 07:55 PM
Still waiting for dyno graphs for your 280awhp K04 build
