NEED HELP! tranny pump change how to
#1
06-06-2009 | 12:15 AM
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 15
From: mn
NEED HELP! tranny pump change how to
Hey guys! Im in a deep **** as od two hours ago. Original auto tranny on my '04 2.7t A6 went out due to leaking out most of the trnny fluid through a loose line of an oil cooler. After trying to flush it out, feeling it up with new tranny fluid we found out that car wont shift in forth gear and after couple worthless atemts going into limp mode.
So here i odered a good low milage used audi tranny with torque converter that was ispected and tested to work just fine. In the process of an instalation i didnt put the torque converter all the way in the tranny and when I tried to put it in it didnt go all the way, so i started to prying stuff and bolting it on anyway......well it still didnt go in. After i droped the tranny, AGAIN, my budy noticed that tc wasnt all the way in, he put it in the right way, tranny bolted right up, we put the rest of car back together only to find out later that fluid that we trying to pump in just flows out no mater what. Pump seems to be not doing its job, and there is some small rateling noise comes from tc area (its probably gone too).
Now, after almost three days of taking **** apart and puting it back together I have to start everything all over again (what a DUMB ***!), plus changing out oil pump from old trany to a new.
I NEED YOUR HELP! Before i screw this up too, i need to know step by step "how to" on tranny oil pump change. I heard there is a special tool to pull it out with out braking something alse, and a special tool to align the replacing pump with new tranny. Is that right, and where can i get them? Thanx guys!!!!
So here i odered a good low milage used audi tranny with torque converter that was ispected and tested to work just fine. In the process of an instalation i didnt put the torque converter all the way in the tranny and when I tried to put it in it didnt go all the way, so i started to prying stuff and bolting it on anyway......well it still didnt go in. After i droped the tranny, AGAIN, my budy noticed that tc wasnt all the way in, he put it in the right way, tranny bolted right up, we put the rest of car back together only to find out later that fluid that we trying to pump in just flows out no mater what. Pump seems to be not doing its job, and there is some small rateling noise comes from tc area (its probably gone too).
Now, after almost three days of taking **** apart and puting it back together I have to start everything all over again (what a DUMB ***!), plus changing out oil pump from old trany to a new.
I NEED YOUR HELP! Before i screw this up too, i need to know step by step "how to" on tranny oil pump change. I heard there is a special tool to pull it out with out braking something alse, and a special tool to align the replacing pump with new tranny. Is that right, and where can i get them? Thanx guys!!!!
Last edited by MADCOBRA03; 06-06-2009 at 12:16 AM. Reason: MAKE IT EASIER TO READ
#2
06-06-2009 | 01:14 AM
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,941
From: IL
3329 ATF-pump installation tool
ATF pump, removing and installing
Good luck.
By the way, for the tool try Zelenda.com
Last edited by chefro; 06-06-2009 at 01:21 AM.
#5
06-06-2009 | 10:09 PM
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,227
From: New York
I can't copy mine POS Vista. But if your are in need www.bentleypublishers.com and download the repair manual. There is a write up on 4,5th gear slipping and pump noise,
Slipping 4th or 5th gear pump makes noise.
Cause; Convertor lining loose or worn
disassemble and check ATF pump
Disassemble and check all clutches,
In the search type; ATF pump and ATF supply housing, removing and installing.
Tool Part no. T10286 puller for ATF supply. Two angled handles that screw in on both sides of supply to pull it out I couldn't find it on ebay but get a couple bolts or some round stock and make them up, no problem there.
Tool part no. T10289 tool to press spring plate down. looks like you can make something up for that one, just two arms that hold the spring down.
There is alot of info in here get the manual a pdf isn't going to do it.
Did you change your converter? from what it's saying it could have been the cause. That would totaly suck.
Slipping 4th or 5th gear pump makes noise.
Cause; Convertor lining loose or worn
disassemble and check ATF pump
Disassemble and check all clutches,
In the search type; ATF pump and ATF supply housing, removing and installing.
Tool Part no. T10286 puller for ATF supply. Two angled handles that screw in on both sides of supply to pull it out I couldn't find it on ebay but get a couple bolts or some round stock and make them up, no problem there.
Tool part no. T10289 tool to press spring plate down. looks like you can make something up for that one, just two arms that hold the spring down.
There is alot of info in here get the manual a pdf isn't going to do it.
Did you change your converter? from what it's saying it could have been the cause. That would totaly suck.
Last edited by Jackmup; 06-06-2009 at 10:16 PM.
#7
06-08-2009 | 01:58 PM
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,227
From: New York
Never done it, but the illustration shows them as handles not pullers they are just to get a grip on it and pull it out evenly nothing special and you can do it without them from what it looks like two bolts and a pair of vice grips on the top of each would do the same IF you have problems pulling it out.
#8
06-08-2009 | 09:28 PM
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,941
From: IL
As I said, my manual goes only to 98.
This set of instructions are for a 01K Tranny for a Front Wheel Drive engine.
At least you get a general idea what tool are they talking about
If you need illustrations too, I already made a .pdf file and I can upload somewhere. Just keep in mind these instructions may have nothing at all in common with your model... since you have a 4WD 2.7, and is way much newer than what these instructions are for.
This set of instructions are for a 01K Tranny for a Front Wheel Drive engine.
At least you get a general idea what tool are they talking about
Audi > C4 > 1992 - 1998
4 Spd. Automatic Transmission 01K Front Wheel Drive
38 - Automatic Transmission - Gears, Hydraulic controls
ATF pump, removing and installing Notes:
Up to transmission number approx. 14 447, the ATF pump can leak at the outer circumference because of an O-ring groove that is too deep. Starting from transmission production date 2/16/98, the design of this groove has been changed.
If the pump elements of the ATF pump are faulty, replacement of the ATF pump only makes sense if there is still no clutch damage. Before carrying out repairs to the ATF pump, always check the ATF for abraded clutch material before beginning repairs.
General repair instructions => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-00-004-0100-7.
Rules of cleanliness for working on automatic transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-006-0137-57.
Special tools, test equipment and auxiliary items
3329 ATF-pump installation tool
Removing ATF pump
Remove transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0137-20.
Secure transmission to holding fixture => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0237-34.
Drain ATF => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-004-0337-49, in this process, check for abraded clutch material in ATF.
Remove torque converter.
Valve body, removing => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-001-0438-5.
Remove drive flange from front final drive => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-39-003-0539-22.
Measure distance -a- between turbine shaft -1- and stator shaft -2- as shown and write down (approx. 18 mm).
Note:
To make installation easier, mark the installation position of the ATF pump to the transmission housing in case the same pump is reinstalled (arrows).
Loosen all ATF pump mounting bolts (arrow) diagonally and remove.
Insert 3329 ATF-pump installation tool and secure with set screw.
Loosen ATF pump and remove (arrows).
Always replace O-ring (arrow).
Notes:
If only the O-ring on the outer circumference of the ATF pump is to be replaced, the ATF pump can be reinstalled => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-27.
To replace the ATF pump, proceed as described starting on Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-19 .
Replacing ATF pump
Note:
If the ATF pump is replaced, the components of brake "C" must be transferred from the old to the new ATF pump.
Pry circlip for plates of brake "C" out from groove in intermediate plate.
In following sequence, remove end plate, clutch plates, outer plates and cup spring.
Note:
Check plates for wear and heat damage.
Place compressed air gun at hole (arrow) in intermediate plate.
WARNING!
Wear safety glasses.
Lift piston using compressed air.
Remove piston.
Remove mounting bolts (arrow) and separate intermediate plate from ATF pump.
Remove pump gear -1- and annular gear -2-.
Check pump gear and annular gear for traces of wear and heat damage, if necessary replace ATF pump complete.
Remove spacer sleeve -3-.
Installation is the reverse of removal, noting the following:
Install pump gear -2- and annular gear -3- with markings -1- facing outward.
Check both locating pins (arrows) in intermediate plate for proper fit.
Install intermediate plate to ATF pump and tighten bolts diagonally (10 Nm or 7 ft lb).
Turn pump around.
Install spacer sleeve -1- from front. Make sure that pump gear driver engages in recesses (arrow).
Check ease of movement of pump gear and pump annular gear. To do this, turn spacer sleeve (arrow).
Note:
Use a small screwdriver so that the seal does not get damaged.
Check "C" piston O-rings (arrows), replace if necessary.
Apply thin coat of Vaseline to "C" piston O-rings and press piston into intermediate plate.
Place first outer plate -1- (of steel) into intermediate plate.
Install cup spring -2- so that outer edge (arrow) projects away from intermediate plate.
Install clutch plate -3-.
Then install all remaining outer plates -4- and clutch plates, alternating.
The end plate -1- (thicker outer plate with more holding pins) is the last plate to be installed.
Install circlip -2-.
Note:
Do not replace circlip with circlip of a different thickness.
Installing ATF pump
Note:
Since it is possible that components of the planetary gear set and the clutches have been pulled apart during removal of the ATF pump, the transmission must be taken apart down to the planetary gear set and put back together individually.
Remove all individual components of automatic transmission from transmission housing, down to planetary gear set. During this process, pay attention to washers and needle roller bearings placed in between.
Remove holding clamp -1- and shim -2-.
Notes:
By removing the shim, the brake band for brake "CI" opens somewhat further which makes installation easier.
Older transmissions have a differently formed holding clamp installed in the transmission housing to hold the shim.
Make sure sun gear is installed in planetary gear set (arrow).
Place sun gear housing -4- onto teeth of sun gear.
Install flat washer -3-.
Place axial needle bearing -2- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -1- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer faces axial needle bearing
Install gear shaft -1-. Make sure that teeth have engaged by turning sun gear shaft back and forth.
Place flat washer -6- onto sun gear shaft.
Place axial needle bearing -5- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -4- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer faces axial needle bearing
Install intermediate shaft -3-. Make sure that teeth have engaged.
Install two washers -1- together with axial needle bearing -2-.
Place axial needle bearing -1- onto input shaft with clutch "E".
Installation position: axial needle bearing faces clutch housing
Make sure two plastic rings -2- are installed flush.
Make sure piston ring -3- is properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on.
Install input shaft with clutch "E"-1- into transmission.
Note:
When installing, turn the input shaft with clutch "E" until all the plates are engaged. To check: lift the input shaft a few millimeters and let it fall back onto the bearing (there must be a slight noise).
Make sure piston rings -2- on turbine shaft with clutch "A" -1- are properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on
Place chamfered washer -3- (larger diameter) onto turbine shaft with clutch "A" -4-.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces up
Install axial needle bearing -2-.
Place chamfered washer -1- (small diameter) onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces up
Place 2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" -1- onto turbine shaft with clutch "A" -2-.
Notes:
2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" and turbine shaft with clutch "A" are assembled outside the transmission housing.
When installing, turn the 2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" until all the plates are engaged.
Place flat washer -3- onto 2nd-gear free wheel with clutch "B" -4-.
Place axial needle bearing -2- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -1- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces down
Make sure piston rings on ATF pump with clutch "C" are properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on
To ease assembly, align clutch plates concentrically with intermediate plate -2- . Also align holding pins -1- of clutch plates over each other so that they align vertically.
Place ATF pump -1- onto subassembly -2- (turbine shaft with clutch "A"/2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B").
Notes:
The ATF pump is placed onto the subassembly outside the transmission housing.
While installing, turn the ATF pump until all the plates are engaged. If necessary, lift the ATF pump slightly, turn and set back down again.
Pull turbine shaft upward forcefully (arrow).
If installed properly, dimension -a- (noted before disassembly) must be same as before disassembly (approx. 18 mm).
Use hose clamp to secure turbine shaft (arrow), so that it cannot slip down. Hose clamp must be tightened forcefully.
Install entire component (ATF pump/turbine shaft with clutch "A"/2nd gear free wheel with clutch '"B") into transmission housing.
Note:
Use 3329 ATF-pump installation tool.
When reinstalling old ATF pump, observe installation position markings (arrows).
When installing new ATF pump, make sure that all bolt holes in ATF pump align with holes in transmission housing.
Notes:
Before installing the ATF pump, if necessary install an M8 stud into one of the bolt holes in the transmission housing as a guide.
After the ATF pump is installed in the transmission housing, it must not be turned otherwise the seal will be damaged.
Move sun gear housing back and forth (arrows) until all plates of clutch "C" are engaged and ATF pump has dropped onto flange in transmission housing.
Install bolts together with new washers for ATF pump and tighten.
Remove hose clamp (arrow) from turbine shaft.
Check installation:
It must be possible to move sun gear housing => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-36, illustration A38-0073
Dimension -a- (noted before disassembly) must be re-attained (approx. 18 mm)
Make sure spacer for torque converter is still engaged.
Install shim -2- and holding clamp -1-.
Install valve body => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-001-0438-5.
Check seal for torque converter, replace if necessary => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-32-001-0532-5.
Install drive axle => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-39-003-0539-26.
Install torque converter => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-32-001-0632-7.
Install transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0137-31.
Fill with ATF and check ATF level => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-004-0337-49.
Tightening torques
Component ............................ Nm (ft lb)
ATF pump to transmission... M6.... 10 (7)
Intermediate plate to pump.. M6....10 (7)
4 Spd. Automatic Transmission 01K Front Wheel Drive
38 - Automatic Transmission - Gears, Hydraulic controls
ATF pump, removing and installing Notes:
Up to transmission number approx. 14 447, the ATF pump can leak at the outer circumference because of an O-ring groove that is too deep. Starting from transmission production date 2/16/98, the design of this groove has been changed.
If the pump elements of the ATF pump are faulty, replacement of the ATF pump only makes sense if there is still no clutch damage. Before carrying out repairs to the ATF pump, always check the ATF for abraded clutch material before beginning repairs.
General repair instructions => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-00-004-0100-7.
Rules of cleanliness for working on automatic transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-006-0137-57.
Special tools, test equipment and auxiliary items
3329 ATF-pump installation tool
Removing ATF pump
Remove transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0137-20.
Secure transmission to holding fixture => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0237-34.
Drain ATF => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-004-0337-49, in this process, check for abraded clutch material in ATF.
Remove torque converter.
Valve body, removing => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-001-0438-5.
Remove drive flange from front final drive => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-39-003-0539-22.
Measure distance -a- between turbine shaft -1- and stator shaft -2- as shown and write down (approx. 18 mm).
Note:
To make installation easier, mark the installation position of the ATF pump to the transmission housing in case the same pump is reinstalled (arrows).
Loosen all ATF pump mounting bolts (arrow) diagonally and remove.
Insert 3329 ATF-pump installation tool and secure with set screw.
Loosen ATF pump and remove (arrows).
Always replace O-ring (arrow).
Notes:
If only the O-ring on the outer circumference of the ATF pump is to be replaced, the ATF pump can be reinstalled => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-27.
To replace the ATF pump, proceed as described starting on Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-19 .
Replacing ATF pump
Note:
If the ATF pump is replaced, the components of brake "C" must be transferred from the old to the new ATF pump.
Pry circlip for plates of brake "C" out from groove in intermediate plate.
In following sequence, remove end plate, clutch plates, outer plates and cup spring.
Note:
Check plates for wear and heat damage.
Place compressed air gun at hole (arrow) in intermediate plate.
WARNING!
Wear safety glasses.
Lift piston using compressed air.
Remove piston.
Remove mounting bolts (arrow) and separate intermediate plate from ATF pump.
Remove pump gear -1- and annular gear -2-.
Check pump gear and annular gear for traces of wear and heat damage, if necessary replace ATF pump complete.
Remove spacer sleeve -3-.
Installation is the reverse of removal, noting the following:
Install pump gear -2- and annular gear -3- with markings -1- facing outward.
Check both locating pins (arrows) in intermediate plate for proper fit.
Install intermediate plate to ATF pump and tighten bolts diagonally (10 Nm or 7 ft lb).
Turn pump around.
Install spacer sleeve -1- from front. Make sure that pump gear driver engages in recesses (arrow).
Check ease of movement of pump gear and pump annular gear. To do this, turn spacer sleeve (arrow).
Note:
Use a small screwdriver so that the seal does not get damaged.
Check "C" piston O-rings (arrows), replace if necessary.
Apply thin coat of Vaseline to "C" piston O-rings and press piston into intermediate plate.
Place first outer plate -1- (of steel) into intermediate plate.
Install cup spring -2- so that outer edge (arrow) projects away from intermediate plate.
Install clutch plate -3-.
Then install all remaining outer plates -4- and clutch plates, alternating.
The end plate -1- (thicker outer plate with more holding pins) is the last plate to be installed.
Install circlip -2-.
Note:
Do not replace circlip with circlip of a different thickness.
Installing ATF pump
Note:
Since it is possible that components of the planetary gear set and the clutches have been pulled apart during removal of the ATF pump, the transmission must be taken apart down to the planetary gear set and put back together individually.
Remove all individual components of automatic transmission from transmission housing, down to planetary gear set. During this process, pay attention to washers and needle roller bearings placed in between.
Remove holding clamp -1- and shim -2-.
Notes:
By removing the shim, the brake band for brake "CI" opens somewhat further which makes installation easier.
Older transmissions have a differently formed holding clamp installed in the transmission housing to hold the shim.
Make sure sun gear is installed in planetary gear set (arrow).
Place sun gear housing -4- onto teeth of sun gear.
Install flat washer -3-.
Place axial needle bearing -2- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -1- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer faces axial needle bearing
Install gear shaft -1-. Make sure that teeth have engaged by turning sun gear shaft back and forth.
Place flat washer -6- onto sun gear shaft.
Place axial needle bearing -5- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -4- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer faces axial needle bearing
Install intermediate shaft -3-. Make sure that teeth have engaged.
Install two washers -1- together with axial needle bearing -2-.
Place axial needle bearing -1- onto input shaft with clutch "E".
Installation position: axial needle bearing faces clutch housing
Make sure two plastic rings -2- are installed flush.
Make sure piston ring -3- is properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on.
Install input shaft with clutch "E"-1- into transmission.
Note:
When installing, turn the input shaft with clutch "E" until all the plates are engaged. To check: lift the input shaft a few millimeters and let it fall back onto the bearing (there must be a slight noise).
Make sure piston rings -2- on turbine shaft with clutch "A" -1- are properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on
Place chamfered washer -3- (larger diameter) onto turbine shaft with clutch "A" -4-.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces up
Install axial needle bearing -2-.
Place chamfered washer -1- (small diameter) onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces up
Place 2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" -1- onto turbine shaft with clutch "A" -2-.
Notes:
2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" and turbine shaft with clutch "A" are assembled outside the transmission housing.
When installing, turn the 2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B" until all the plates are engaged.
Place flat washer -3- onto 2nd-gear free wheel with clutch "B" -4-.
Place axial needle bearing -2- onto washer.
Place chamfered washer -1- onto axial needle bearing.
Installation position: chamfer on washer faces down
Make sure piston rings on ATF pump with clutch "C" are properly seated.
Piston ring must be hooked on
To ease assembly, align clutch plates concentrically with intermediate plate -2- . Also align holding pins -1- of clutch plates over each other so that they align vertically.
Place ATF pump -1- onto subassembly -2- (turbine shaft with clutch "A"/2nd gear free wheel with clutch "B").
Notes:
The ATF pump is placed onto the subassembly outside the transmission housing.
While installing, turn the ATF pump until all the plates are engaged. If necessary, lift the ATF pump slightly, turn and set back down again.
Pull turbine shaft upward forcefully (arrow).
If installed properly, dimension -a- (noted before disassembly) must be same as before disassembly (approx. 18 mm).
Use hose clamp to secure turbine shaft (arrow), so that it cannot slip down. Hose clamp must be tightened forcefully.
Install entire component (ATF pump/turbine shaft with clutch "A"/2nd gear free wheel with clutch '"B") into transmission housing.
Note:
Use 3329 ATF-pump installation tool.
When reinstalling old ATF pump, observe installation position markings (arrows).
When installing new ATF pump, make sure that all bolt holes in ATF pump align with holes in transmission housing.
Notes:
Before installing the ATF pump, if necessary install an M8 stud into one of the bolt holes in the transmission housing as a guide.
After the ATF pump is installed in the transmission housing, it must not be turned otherwise the seal will be damaged.
Move sun gear housing back and forth (arrows) until all plates of clutch "C" are engaged and ATF pump has dropped onto flange in transmission housing.
Install bolts together with new washers for ATF pump and tighten.
Remove hose clamp (arrow) from turbine shaft.
Check installation:
It must be possible to move sun gear housing => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-002-0138-36, illustration A38-0073
Dimension -a- (noted before disassembly) must be re-attained (approx. 18 mm)
Make sure spacer for torque converter is still engaged.
Install shim -2- and holding clamp -1-.
Install valve body => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-38-001-0438-5.
Check seal for torque converter, replace if necessary => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-32-001-0532-5.
Install drive axle => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-39-003-0539-26.
Install torque converter => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-32-001-0632-7.
Install transmission => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-003-0137-31.
Fill with ATF and check ATF level => Page AUDI-C4-AT02-37-004-0337-49.
Tightening torques
Component ............................ Nm (ft lb)
ATF pump to transmission... M6.... 10 (7)
Intermediate plate to pump.. M6....10 (7)
#9
06-09-2009 | 02:46 AM
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5
MADCOBRA
Is your tranny a ZF 5HP19? that is what I have in MY03 boxster
If it is, I did not use any special tools at all (tool cost astronomical)
everything is straight forward as far as disassembly, up until you get
to the part, where you need to remove the front pump assembly.
the tool basically used for ease to remove pump assembly that all.
I cannot post any pix since the forum uses different format to attach
pix. I'll e-mail you pix
Is your tranny a ZF 5HP19? that is what I have in MY03 boxster
If it is, I did not use any special tools at all (tool cost astronomical)
everything is straight forward as far as disassembly, up until you get
to the part, where you need to remove the front pump assembly.
the tool basically used for ease to remove pump assembly that all.
I cannot post any pix since the forum uses different format to attach
pix. I'll e-mail you pix
#10
06-12-2009 | 12:42 PM
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 15
From: mn
thanx guys. a lot of useful input. all i need right now is a bentley manual for ZF 5HP19 and i will start this weekend. From what i understand i dond need any special tools realy, just more time and a extra set of hands.