Oh please, i have got to see a dyno of someone making 400+BHP on a elim. I have yet to see anyone (transverse or longitude) make anything on a eliminator turbo. All the dynos i have seen show that you can make more with less turbo than a elim. What im saying is that a t25 or t3 garrett gt28rs will easily make more power than a gt71r elim andspool FARsooner than a GTRS.Hell, i bet a t25 gt28rs .86will outspool a gtrs and make 30-50more whp than it also.

The housings are so poor and you still need to buy a new manifold to help them spool, so why not just spend the extra $400 for a dp?

Oh, and i highly doubt the fastest a4's are running a elim. The only way that would happen if 9 out of 10 people run them

ANd Sean, this is in no way an attack on you. You run a ATP kit, which i wished more people would follow

 

have you actually seen or felt any of these turbo's on a 1.8t? cause i have. and they all spool about the same. full boost(20psi) about 3800rpm.

the proof of power is in the trap speeds of those cars i posted. and 8 of the top 10 fastest B6 cars are running eliminators. including the top 2. so that should tell you something right there..

but here, i dug up some dyno's for you

this is a GTRS with a leaking DV(notice the wavy power output)


these next 2 charts are of a GTRS car. the lower number is at 1.8l displacement. the higher number is when it was built to 2.0l




here is a 71r elim on a B5



and finally, here is a PDF of a 71r on a B6. 323 AWHP/327AWTQ---->http://dthaus.com/DYNO.pdf


there is more. specifically a guy that put down 321(410Bhp)Awhp on a GTRS elim. but i couldn't find it.. but these are just the ones i could find off the top of my head

 

I just like the middle dyno, it shows 3076r type spool but without the power. The first dyno is a little more typical, just shy of 300whp. In that PDF, the power is only over 300whp from 4800 and back below at 6100rpms. You cant seriously tell me that these turbos are worthwhile after looking at these dynos can you? A t25 .64 gt2871r would hit 20+ psi around 3700rpms and make power all the way till 7k+. Which powerband would you think more people would prefer, 1200rpms or 3500rpms?Proves thanits worth the extra $500 or so for a REAL kit.

 

first off, look at the location of the middle dyno. it's at parker colorado, which is 5000+ ft in elevation. so of coarse it's going to be a slower spool. those numbers are SAE corrected for sealevel conditions btw..

and in the PDF, that guy actually had a full GT28RS setup prior to his 71r(made the change for emissions resons living in CA). he states that the power difference is actually not noticable between the two. look him up. he's had a BT'd A4 for over 3 years. his name is '400hpA4' or 'Greg@DTH'on audi zine.. im not sure what you're problem is with the elims. they have their pros and cons, just like any turbo setup really. there is more than just peak power and spool time

and further more, dyno's are not the end all be all for judging power output. i know you have got to know this. we are not even awareof what type of dyno's most of these are. and there isn't even a baseline dyno of an A4 to compare them too. as well as are we looking at all the conditions of them? like temp, humidity, octane of gas, adjusted altitude? no, we aren't

im with you that a full garrett turbo will of coarse be better for more power output as well as a few other things over the elims. but im not with you that the elims are a horrible option. they suit many people for what they want very well. and again, have been proven MANY TIMES. HINT-look at the trap speeds on all those elim turbo's and compare it with the full GT28RS APR cars in there

give me a minute and ill show you one of the reasons that an elim setup will be better for some people rather than having a t25/t3 setup

 

My point is more lag, less power (both peak and throughout the rpm range), cost (still need a manifold and the turbos are $5-600 more than a real garrett), terrible fitment issues (mainly on the transverse), and like some other guy showed, the stock style manifolds crack. So why deal with all of this instead of just spending a few hundred more for a atp hardware kit, injectors and sw? Emissions can be taken care of by welding in a cat, and im still highly doubt your car would lose to someone with a gt71r with everything else being equal (tires, exhaust size, cat, fmic and so on). The power kicks in sooner, peaks higher or about the same and will hold power longer than a gt71r will. Just look at that pdf link again. 1500rpms above 300whp is sad when your talking about 2871's.

 

had to go snap a pic real quick..

but, here is a comparison between a GTRSengine bayand my GT28RS enginebay. now these are extreemes, (since he actually has all the factory panels/covers. but just pay a mojority of your attentoin to the turbo portion of the bay)but this shows the difference. especially for people that have strick car moddinglimitations like in California where nothing visual can be different

mine


and his

 

Thats one valid reason to buy it, ill give you that.

 

you and i are arguing about different things. but this is going to have to be my last post for a while as i have class.

one thing you are forgetting, is for the $1200 price of the full GT28RS, you aren't getting a wastegate. so there is another $400 plus plumbing if you decide to go external. but main reason is they are a custom turbo. and one of the top reasons that people get these over other turbo's are stock placement..

what we shouldn't be arguing about, is the fact that yes, as i said in my very first post in this thread, the elims will have a little bit worse spool(50-100rpms MAX) and suffer in power output. mainly low end torque. but for some people, they are just (edit, forget where i was going with that, haha)

but there are pro's and cons to every turbo setup. everyone should not have the same setup as there is no cookie cutter version for you. and i have talked to many different people that have driven/riden in full setups, and elim setups of the same turbo. as well as a guy that has owned both on one car. and they claim, differences are not noticable

 

T25 turbos come with a wastegate and cost the same as a T3 w/o a wastegate. Also a standerd 38mm tial $200-225 depending on where you get it from.

Spool is way worse than 100rpms, more like 400-500rpms

And you boy went from a 28rs to a gt71r elim, im sure the power level is the same, just the extra lag to contend with

Apr stage 3+ (gt28rs) No boost given but should be 20-22psi, you see how the power continues to redline? The elims dont do that.



GT28RS (the sheet says 28r, but it's a mistake)
415cc@3bar
vr maf
ATP HW
Nospeed 75mm CB
4-speed transmission
EPL SW 19 psi


STock AWW engine
GT28rs .86 ar
internal wastegate
(Wastegate was set at 6psi to lower EGTS for dialy driving-casuing boost to taper that much)
440 injectors Revo BT sofware
revo settings HB9 Timing 7 on 94 octane
20-22 psi tapering down to 17 at redline
Bailey Diverter valve
EG solid cold air intake
3" inlet pipe
Custom FMIC using ATP tubing
Greddy Spec 1 Boost controller
255 lph walbro inline pump
3 bar FPR

This .86 looks like a elim spool but makes 350whp on a gt28rs


Eurosport Intake
APR Stage 3+
EVOMS FMIC
Forge DV
APR DP + cat
Milltek 2.5" T-back Exhaust

 

I love it when someone posts about BT set ups, it always ends with cincyTT and sean1.8T throwing daggers at each other, i love it.