DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
#1
04-01-2007, 09:13 PM
DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
I do not own an Audi, yet, but if there is one thing I learned from Audi enthusiasts, its that people who buy an Audi love the feel of driving one.So, what I cannot quite fathom is why you enthusiasts are tolerating the new DBW systems. Why aren't you objecting. Next thing it will be DBB [braking] and then DBS [steering]. Just put in the term "drive by wire" and see the automated crap that the government, vehicle manufacturers, EPA, and Insurance companies are pushing for. IT WILL be the end of your Audi enjoyment ... "Never Follow" -- yeah right!
The March 2006 ENGINEERING TIMES, has a long story about a British effort to build a completely verified microprocessor for critical applications. The story is notable in that it motivates the effort throughout by calling attention to the possibility of major accidents involving computer failure. At the start of the story is a full-page illustration depicting a snake with fangs bared, and the lead: Somewhere - at a nuclear plant, on board a missile, or at a chemical refinery, it's going to happen: a catastrophic computer-related disaster. A growing group of engineers and scientists say it's unavoidable with today's microprocessors, which they deem inherently unreliable.
Hey read this: http://seeri.etsu.edu/SECodeCases/et...eathByWire.htm
diyer
The March 2006 ENGINEERING TIMES, has a long story about a British effort to build a completely verified microprocessor for critical applications. The story is notable in that it motivates the effort throughout by calling attention to the possibility of major accidents involving computer failure. At the start of the story is a full-page illustration depicting a snake with fangs bared, and the lead: Somewhere - at a nuclear plant, on board a missile, or at a chemical refinery, it's going to happen: a catastrophic computer-related disaster. A growing group of engineers and scientists say it's unavoidable with today's microprocessors, which they deem inherently unreliable.
Hey read this: http://seeri.etsu.edu/SECodeCases/et...eathByWire.htm
diyer
#6
04-01-2007, 09:40 PM
RE: DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
What are you smoking man? Seriously, Chaos would love some!
DBW, theres nothing wrong with drive by wire. Its not the end of anything. Its been in cars for a long time. Only people who dont like it is the ones that fine tune the cars.
What next, Fly by wire isnt good either? that spoils the enjoyiment of flight?? if it isnt for FBW many of todays great military aircaraft would not be able to fly.
go take a **** or something and relax.
DBW, theres nothing wrong with drive by wire. Its not the end of anything. Its been in cars for a long time. Only people who dont like it is the ones that fine tune the cars.
What next, Fly by wire isnt good either? that spoils the enjoyiment of flight?? if it isnt for FBW many of todays great military aircaraft would not be able to fly.
go take a **** or something and relax.
#7
04-01-2007, 10:11 PM
RE: DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
If it's good enough for an F-22, it's good enough for me. Seriously man, the last thread you started was a little over the top in the worry category but this takes it. If anything, I'll be happy when the morons have their cars fully driven by compuyers and you have to take a qualifying exam to actually drive that only the brightest can pass. God must love idiots because he sure made a lot of them.
#8
04-01-2007, 11:15 PM
RE: DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
Smoking that stuff never had any bad effect on anyone - nice try but no cigar!
Obviously you haven't done a search under "drive by wire" and saw pics of the GM crap they want to introduce, as well as, Mercedes, etc., all of them want to do it.
diyer
Obviously you haven't done a search under "drive by wire" and saw pics of the GM crap they want to introduce, as well as, Mercedes, etc., all of them want to do it.
diyer
#9
04-01-2007, 11:21 PM
RE: DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
Why would you base your decision and argument on a hypothetical case developed by college students with no real world experience? Did you read this on the web site you posted:
"Teams of students at ETSU wrote these cases."
I am a software engineer in the REAL WORLD of fly-by-wire systems, my particular expertise is in factory/plant floor automation. I can assure you that the hypothetical case is big on hypothesis and short on accuracy. In the real world, we ALWAYS include code to handle the exception cases, and the "overloaded truck" exception scenario is completely OBVIOUS to a real world controls engineer with more than 6 months of experience. Do you really think that a life safety system such as braking, steering, etc. would not receive EXTENSIVE code review by numerous engineers and failure mode testing to prevent such failure scenarios?
Rest asssured that the code would be programmed so that in ANY exception case such as:
- weight >= 80,000 lbs. (overloaded)
- weight < 10,000 lbs (unloaded weight not plausible / load cell failure)
- erratic weight changes (xxx lbs change over a period of time while the vehicle is operating)
- etc, etc, etc,
the algorithm would provide 100% braking power as a fail safe mode of operation.
"Teams of students at ETSU wrote these cases."
I am a software engineer in the REAL WORLD of fly-by-wire systems, my particular expertise is in factory/plant floor automation. I can assure you that the hypothetical case is big on hypothesis and short on accuracy. In the real world, we ALWAYS include code to handle the exception cases, and the "overloaded truck" exception scenario is completely OBVIOUS to a real world controls engineer with more than 6 months of experience. Do you really think that a life safety system such as braking, steering, etc. would not receive EXTENSIVE code review by numerous engineers and failure mode testing to prevent such failure scenarios?
Rest asssured that the code would be programmed so that in ANY exception case such as:
- weight >= 80,000 lbs. (overloaded)
- weight < 10,000 lbs (unloaded weight not plausible / load cell failure)
- erratic weight changes (xxx lbs change over a period of time while the vehicle is operating)
- etc, etc, etc,
the algorithm would provide 100% braking power as a fail safe mode of operation.
#10
04-01-2007, 11:34 PM
RE: DBW = Death By Wire, end of Audi experience
That's rediuclous. Listen to 18T and go chill out.
I'd love to help design a system for steer-by-wire. Just because it's a sweet interface doesn't mean that it has to behave differently... it'd just let you do other stuff, like remote driving and getting force feedback. I'm considering doing my graduate work in the field of Haptics, it seems badass. Also, there's always going to be performance enthusiasts and die-hard drivers. You think they'd actually let it get to a point where a huge number of people are unsatisfied with the product? The consumers drive the products, I don't see it happening.
Not to mention, how many cables, pulleys, linkages, whatever... have broken in aircraft resulting in crashes? Failure happens. At least with software you don't have to worry about degradation of linkages, only electric failures. *shrug*
[I have a non-dbw car, I love it. Don't mistake me, I'm not really "on" a side, I just love to drive
]
Also... DBB and DBS? Drive by braking / drive by steering? Shouldnt it be BBW and SBW? Just sayin. :-P
I'd love to help design a system for steer-by-wire. Just because it's a sweet interface doesn't mean that it has to behave differently... it'd just let you do other stuff, like remote driving and getting force feedback. I'm considering doing my graduate work in the field of Haptics, it seems badass. Also, there's always going to be performance enthusiasts and die-hard drivers. You think they'd actually let it get to a point where a huge number of people are unsatisfied with the product? The consumers drive the products, I don't see it happening.
Not to mention, how many cables, pulleys, linkages, whatever... have broken in aircraft resulting in crashes? Failure happens. At least with software you don't have to worry about degradation of linkages, only electric failures. *shrug*
[I have a non-dbw car, I love it. Don't mistake me, I'm not really "on" a side, I just love to drive
]Also... DBB and DBS? Drive by braking / drive by steering? Shouldnt it be BBW and SBW? Just sayin. :-P