1.8T vs. S4
#71
04-08-2005, 03:14 PM
RE: 1.8T vs. S4
do any of you armchair quarterbacks have both cars sitting right outside their window??? i do. 
i have a 99.5 a4 avant AEB 1.8t 5 speed with K04 and some supporting mods. it should be around 250-260 hp, run 0-60 in the low 6's and the 1/4 in the low to mid 14's. weight is 3411 pounds with just under 1/4 tank of gas.
my boss has a 01 S4 avant 6 speed with real RS4 turbos, big intercoolers, APR K03 flipswitch ecu, RS4 clutch and not much else. it should be around 350-400hp, run 0-60 in the high 4's, and the 1/4 in the low 13's. it could probably crack off a 12.9 with a little abuse. even when bone stock it ran 0-60 in the mid to high 5 second range and could pull better 1/4 times than the k04 1.8t.
both cars can easily do 4 wheel burnouts and go faster than they need to. that said, the s4 will crush the a4 like nobody's business. the extra 400 pounds doesn't matter much when it puts out 350-400 pounds feet or torque from 2000 to 7000rpm. the a4 is maybe 250-275 from 3000-5500 rpm. the s4 also has that fancy 6 speed box to put that torque to work.
what these numbers don't tell you is what it is like to drive these cars back to back. my little 1.8t puts up a good fight and is reasonably smooth for it's size and power output. when at wot and making 17 psi it sounds like it is working hard to move the car. second and third gear are great but the feeling of power wanes above fourth gear. the s4 is nearly silent and smooth as silk at all times. turbo lag is easily less than half that of the 1.8t. if you floor it in fourth gear to pull out and pass you can feel the muscles in the front of your neck straining to keep your head off the headrest. the turbos whisper to you and the car just launches. the car makes about as much noise at wot as my a4 does at idle.
i have gotten it going in first and let it idle down to about 2200 rpms before punching it. my whole body slides hack in the seat and it pulls on my hands like a sportbike. the amount of completely EFFORTLESS power this car makes is astounding. any gear, any rpm, no problem.
the finances.
the s4 was bought new for just over $46,000. that's about 950 /month with 0 down. the s4 payment and insurance is more than my a4 payment and insurance on both my cars (wife has an outback limited) and our mortgage with property tax and utilities and cable bill. crazy huh?
the apr chip was about $900. the used rs4 turbos (imported from a wrecked RS4), ics, and clutch was about $4000. the install labor was another $5200.
the a4 was bought used for $15,000 with 75k miles. i did timing belt, electric fan kit, snub mounts, s4 motor mounts, heavy duty control arms (all of 'em), h-sport anti roll bar set, kw coilovers, a8 brakes, SB OFE clutch , tranny mounts, test pipe, winter wheels and tires, track wheels, summer wheels and tires, and still have the original wheels with good all seasons on them. all told, i have less than $24k into this car. i could build a used aeb block up and go with a sweet potato setup, sell my original engine and turbo kit, and stay well under $30k. with that built engine i could potentially equal the s4 in some categories. i could beat it at autox easily but probably not on a track with long straights.
my advice:
if you have the cash or are willing to use credit for it than get the s4. it has much more potential and with a set of k04-16 hybrids will be well into the 500-550 range with a mountain of torque. if you do the labor yourself, piece everything together and buy the downpipes and exhaust used you could put this together for a few grand more than a 1.8t big turbo setup.
tom says the 1.8t is good for 350whp and i believe him. it is not good forever that way though. it you plan on keeping this car that you've heavily invested in i would either build a 1.8t with a stout bottom end or get the s4.
or alienate everyone on this board by picking up a subaru legacy gt and modding to an easy 400hp for less than $2500.
for what it's worth, i am a pretty fast autocrosser and was surprised to find that my modded a4 couldn't keep up with the 269,000 mile 94 jetta vr6 that i had been running for the precious two seasons. i was also a little dismayed to find that i could no longer beat the brower brothers in their matching bone stock biturbo s4s on victoracers. i beat them by 1 or 2 seconds on azenis in the jetta. they beat the a4 (on 235/45-17 pilots) by about a second. the weight and softer suspension helps keep their cars planted in the corners and they can smoothly accelerate out. even if i pull a very smooth line in the corner the car pitches when the boost hits which costs me some time.
wagon power!
almost forgot to mention. that s4 is still buttery smooth at 140,000 miles.
i have a 99.5 a4 avant AEB 1.8t 5 speed with K04 and some supporting mods. it should be around 250-260 hp, run 0-60 in the low 6's and the 1/4 in the low to mid 14's. weight is 3411 pounds with just under 1/4 tank of gas.
my boss has a 01 S4 avant 6 speed with real RS4 turbos, big intercoolers, APR K03 flipswitch ecu, RS4 clutch and not much else. it should be around 350-400hp, run 0-60 in the high 4's, and the 1/4 in the low 13's. it could probably crack off a 12.9 with a little abuse. even when bone stock it ran 0-60 in the mid to high 5 second range and could pull better 1/4 times than the k04 1.8t.
both cars can easily do 4 wheel burnouts and go faster than they need to. that said, the s4 will crush the a4 like nobody's business. the extra 400 pounds doesn't matter much when it puts out 350-400 pounds feet or torque from 2000 to 7000rpm. the a4 is maybe 250-275 from 3000-5500 rpm. the s4 also has that fancy 6 speed box to put that torque to work.
what these numbers don't tell you is what it is like to drive these cars back to back. my little 1.8t puts up a good fight and is reasonably smooth for it's size and power output. when at wot and making 17 psi it sounds like it is working hard to move the car. second and third gear are great but the feeling of power wanes above fourth gear. the s4 is nearly silent and smooth as silk at all times. turbo lag is easily less than half that of the 1.8t. if you floor it in fourth gear to pull out and pass you can feel the muscles in the front of your neck straining to keep your head off the headrest. the turbos whisper to you and the car just launches. the car makes about as much noise at wot as my a4 does at idle.
i have gotten it going in first and let it idle down to about 2200 rpms before punching it. my whole body slides hack in the seat and it pulls on my hands like a sportbike. the amount of completely EFFORTLESS power this car makes is astounding. any gear, any rpm, no problem.
the finances.
the s4 was bought new for just over $46,000. that's about 950 /month with 0 down. the s4 payment and insurance is more than my a4 payment and insurance on both my cars (wife has an outback limited) and our mortgage with property tax and utilities and cable bill. crazy huh?
the apr chip was about $900. the used rs4 turbos (imported from a wrecked RS4), ics, and clutch was about $4000. the install labor was another $5200.
the a4 was bought used for $15,000 with 75k miles. i did timing belt, electric fan kit, snub mounts, s4 motor mounts, heavy duty control arms (all of 'em), h-sport anti roll bar set, kw coilovers, a8 brakes, SB OFE clutch , tranny mounts, test pipe, winter wheels and tires, track wheels, summer wheels and tires, and still have the original wheels with good all seasons on them. all told, i have less than $24k into this car. i could build a used aeb block up and go with a sweet potato setup, sell my original engine and turbo kit, and stay well under $30k. with that built engine i could potentially equal the s4 in some categories. i could beat it at autox easily but probably not on a track with long straights.
my advice:
if you have the cash or are willing to use credit for it than get the s4. it has much more potential and with a set of k04-16 hybrids will be well into the 500-550 range with a mountain of torque. if you do the labor yourself, piece everything together and buy the downpipes and exhaust used you could put this together for a few grand more than a 1.8t big turbo setup.
tom says the 1.8t is good for 350whp and i believe him. it is not good forever that way though. it you plan on keeping this car that you've heavily invested in i would either build a 1.8t with a stout bottom end or get the s4.
or alienate everyone on this board by picking up a subaru legacy gt and modding to an easy 400hp for less than $2500.
for what it's worth, i am a pretty fast autocrosser and was surprised to find that my modded a4 couldn't keep up with the 269,000 mile 94 jetta vr6 that i had been running for the precious two seasons. i was also a little dismayed to find that i could no longer beat the brower brothers in their matching bone stock biturbo s4s on victoracers. i beat them by 1 or 2 seconds on azenis in the jetta. they beat the a4 (on 235/45-17 pilots) by about a second. the weight and softer suspension helps keep their cars planted in the corners and they can smoothly accelerate out. even if i pull a very smooth line in the corner the car pitches when the boost hits which costs me some time.
wagon power!
almost forgot to mention. that s4 is still buttery smooth at 140,000 miles.
#73
04-08-2005, 07:14 PM
RE: 1.8T vs. S4
onemoremile, you only running low 6s to 60? Wow, i ran 6.8s with back when was chipped.
